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Thread: Plans scrapped to build 3 new factories in US due to tax on medical devices

  1. #26
    FlatLiner Contributor DontBeAfraid's Avatar
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    There is no job loss... 2.3% does not equal 50%... This is them lobbying to get a new tiny tax removed... this didnt stop them from expanding... they were never going to... If the 2.3% tax was removed TONIGHT do you HONESTLY believe they would start plans for building 3 more factories... you are choosing to believe something ridiculous.
    I aggressively attack stupidity... If you feel I am being aggressive, well....

  2. #27
    ### of all Things Nuclear Ningishiddza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GamerGal View Post
    What looming tax? More right wing BS.
    Proposed Regulations Issued on Medical Device Excise Tax

    On Feb. 3, 2012, the IRS and the Treasury Department issued proposed regulations on the new 2.3-percent medical device excise tax (IRC 4191) that manufacturers and importers will pay on their sales of taxable medical devices starting in 2013. Additional information is available in the Medical Device Excise Tax FAQs.
    http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...220809,00.html

    You might want to try reading the text of the bill before making yourself look like a fool.

    In your face.

    Quote Originally Posted by GamerGal View Post
    "Cut into Company Coffers" That's the only reason they oppose it.
    "Oh noes! I will only make 23.3 billion instead of 23.4 billion!"
    2010 annual global revenue for the company was approximately $2 Billion
    http://www.cookmedical.com/newsDetail.do?id=7106

    How much money do you think it costs to open a new facility? Did you think it was free? Did you think the Money Fairy clad in the most shimmering samite would mount her pink unicorn and fly from her ivory tower on the Isle of Utopia in the Sea of Kum-ba-ya and start throwing money around?

    Well, it costs money, and that's what profits are used for: expanding companies.

    That's twice I just made you look like a buffoon.

    In your face, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by GamerGal View Post
    They don't care about healthcosts(A third of which doesn't go to actual healthcare but Republican bank accounts) or jobs(The GOP passed the ship jobs overseas tax cut during the Bush Era)
    And you have proof of that, right?

    Of course you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    Typical knee-jerk response from Comrade GG, who was too lazy to read the article and look up the tax on medical devices.
    You people definitely need a Most Ignorant Postor Award.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    "The Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that the tax, equal to 2.3 percent of the sale price of medical devices, will raise $29 billion in the next 10 years. The tax would apply to manufacturers and importers of devices like pacemakers and stents, defibrillators, artificial hips and knees, surgical tools and X-ray machines."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/08/us...ars-house.html
    Sorry, Freddy, not gonna happen, because that's not how taxes work.

    Kind of reminds you of the Soviet Union, doesn't it? The 10-Year Plan, right?

    $29 Billion over 10 years is $2.9 Billion per year. That wouldn't even pay for one Jell-O Party. It might pay for some whelks on treadmills.

    Just to put that into perspective, $29 Billion would pay for the health care of 29,000 people, assuming you capped their maximum expenditure at $1 Million per person per life-time. Assuming a life-spans of 75 years, that comes to ~$13,300 per year per person for 75 years of life.

    Oooops.

    Quote Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid View Post
    2.3 percent increase in a sales tax is not the difference between building 3 new factories and NOT building 3 new factories for a single company... Think THEN post... Their profits ARENT so razor thin...
    And you know that how? Did you audit their books?

    Calculate the Price Elasticity of various medical devices factoring in the 2.3% sales tax.

    Provide a graph.

    Show whether revenues increase or decrease.

    If revenues increase, determine if profits will increase or decline -- because it's possible to increase revenues with no increase in profits or a loss of profits.

    It's really shocking that you're not aware of that, yet you talk out of your neck.

    Quote Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid View Post
    I would love for you to show me the math of 2.3 percent sales tax turning into 50 percent... Bozo.
    What would be the point? Half of it would go over your head, and the other half way, way over your head.

    Quote Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid View Post
    Good job on reposting the opening post... Now show me the math...

    show me how 2.3 % turns into over 50%... please...
    I gave you an hint earlier -- it's called Price Elasticity -- look into it or remain ignorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by JenaS62 View Post
    Here I think Moody's could also use your help.

    http://www.massdevice.com/news/moody...-impact?page=2


    "Moody's Investor Services estimates that the impact of the medical device tax for the companies it covers will top $650 million.

    "We believe that most rated device companies will continue to focus on cost-cutting initiatives, including reducing headcount and improving operating efficiencies. These efforts will help offset the added tax as well as ongoing pricing and demand pressures. Some companies have already put cost-cutting programs in place, including Stryker Corp. (NYSE:SYK) and Boston Scientific (NYSE:BSX)," according to the report.

    Here's a look at Moody's estimates for the after-tax impact of the medical device tax on the 21 companies in its med-tech coverage universe:
    Estimated medical device tax impact:

    Company Estimated after-tax
    Medtronic (NYSE:MDT) $136 million
    Stryker (NYSE:SYK) $77 million
    Boston Scientific (NYSE:BSX) $63 million
    Covidien (NYSE:COV) $61 million"



    Also - I did not repost the opening post. It was another article about the impact to the med-tech industry. Please put me back on ignore so I don't need to waste my time responding to your idiotic posts.
    Good job JenaS62.

    This is a perfect example of Price Elasticity, and something I've mentioned repeatedly regarding Obamacare and that is the Big Question:

    Exactly how much will one employee cost on January 1, 2014?

    Nobody knows.

    We can't even guess, because H&HS is still "interpreting" Obamacare and cranking out regulations. At last count, from the Federal Register, there were over +140 regulatory changes affecting the cost of health due to Obamacare. That was a few months ago when H&HS issued their mandate on women's preventative care. I should point out that the cost of that care has not yet been determined and factored into the cost of health care premiums. There are many more cost increases in the pipeline. That creates tremendous uncertainty in business, because businesses don't know exactly how to respond to the cost increases, since no one knows what the cost increases will be.

    The question regarding costs, isn't "How much do I raise the price of my goods or services?", the question is "Can I raise the price of my goods and services?", because if you cannot raise the price (due to Price Elasticity), then you start taking losses.

    Anyway, yes there is some kind of math, it's called Price Elasticity. Whether or not an increase in price results in an in increase and revenues and an increase in profits, or an increase in revenues and a loss of profits, or a decrease in revenues and loss of profits depends on the whether those particular goods (or services) are inelastic or elastic in terms of price. Generally speaking, anything elastic results in either an increase in revenues, but a loss of profits, or a loss of both revenues and profits.
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  3. #28
    FlatLiner Contributor DontBeAfraid's Avatar
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    Not even windbagNing can show me fake math... and fake math/no sourcing is that windbag's thing.... Ning, I dont point this out to EVERYBODY I interact with and for a very small percentage of people I interact with the inverse is true... but in this case, with you, I AM smarter than you... You couldnt do what I do... True logic just isnt your thing... Windbag "logic" made to pull the wool of the eyes of people with lesser intelligence then you ya... you can do that... You got some glen beck logic going on... but I happen to be smarter than that...

    So ning... show me the math...
    I aggressively attack stupidity... If you feel I am being aggressive, well....

  4. #29
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member SuperDig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenaS62 View Post
    GG's debate style. When you have nothing else, post an irrelevant cartoon.


    So how is that job search going GG? Not well huh? Can't imagine why.
    LMFAO@Jena. That is becoming her usual practice. She just stops debating completely .....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ningishiddza View Post
    http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...220809,00.html

    How much money do you think it costs to open a new facility? Did you think it was free? Did you think the Money Fairy clad in the most shimmering samite would mount her pink unicorn and fly from her ivory tower on the Isle of Utopia in the Sea of Kum-ba-ya and start throwing money around?

    Well, it costs money, and that's what profits are used for: expanding companies.

    That's twice I just made you look like a buffoon.

    In your face, again.
    Ning, your assessment is spot on. She does not have the first clue how business works ....

    Quote Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid View Post
    Not even windbagNing can show me fake math... and fake math/no sourcing is that windbag's thing.... Ning, I dont point this out to EVERYBODY I interact with and for a very small percentage of people I interact with the inverse is true... but in this case, with you, I AM smarter than you... You couldnt do what I do... True logic just isnt your thing... Windbag "logic" made to pull the wool of the eyes of people with lesser intelligence then you ya... you can do that... You got some glen beck logic going on... but I happen to be smarter than that...

    So ning... show me the math...
    After reading that, it's like DBA is trying to catch his breath through the whole thing. I guess once you hit a certain level of intelligence, all sentence structure goes out the window. I think there are more periods in that post than actual facts. Seriously, are DBA and GG are the same person?

  5. #30
    ### of all Things Nuclear Ningishiddza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid View Post
    Not even windbagNing can show me fake math...
    Your inability to comprehend basic economics does not render anything fake (except in your own demented mind). Since you cannot grasp the concept of numbers....









    This one even has an hot chick...





    http://tutor2u.net/economics/revisio...of-demand.html

    Quote Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid View Post
    True logic just isnt your thing
    On the contrary, it is you who is totally lacking in logic. You are incapable of identifying products and services as either elastic and inelastic with respect to prices, and you are unable to grasp the simple logic that if the price of a product rises, consumers will buy less of that product, resulting in lower revenues, resulting in lower profits.

    Your idiot logic is that if the price of something rises, consumers will purchase more and more to both increase revenues and profits.

    Yeah, that's why the oil embargo worked...because the price of oil (and gasoline) is inelastic in the short-term, but elastic in the long-term, resulting in fewer sales, lower revenues and lower profits.

    You ain't that brilliant if cannot see something as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid View Post
    and fake math/no sourcing is that windbag's thing....
    Prove it. Refute any claims I make (if you dare).

    I asked if you had audited the companies books. You failed to respond. Did you, or did you not audit their books?

    What is your source, or are you just making stuff up as you go along? Is that some kind of Liberal genetic trait? Applying double standards? But, of course, holding others to an higher standard than you are willing to hold yourself is a sign of low intelligence or mental illness.
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  6. #31
    FlatLiner Contributor DontBeAfraid's Avatar
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    lol... thanks for the pics gg... I know what elasticity is windbag... Now show me how 2.3% turns into 50%...

    Show me how 2.3% = 30,000,000 USD...

    I have NOT audited their books... If an audit of their books proves that I am wrong I will gladly admit it... Have they released their books? Or just this statement about "we were gonna open SO MANY FACTORIES before this tiny tax... but now we are going out of business instead"...

    While you are making the idea of elasticity SEEM like something complicated the math behind it is as simple as finding out which lengths the sides of a rectangle need to be to yield the biggest area...(its always a square... and elasticity is just as easily determined)... but that doesnt make your off topic rant any more relevant to my math inquiry...

    Just like YOU, these guys are pandering to idiots...

    If you REALLY think you are on to something though... Explain to me how medical care and by necessity medical equipment are highly elastic when it comes to demand... Your argument applies really really well to the price of movie tickets or a hotdog vendor... but not as well to healthcare... or water...
    Last edited by DontBeAfraid; Jul 31st, 2012 at 11:45 PM.
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  7. #32
    AO Feminazi GamerGal's Avatar
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    Come on righties. YOU MADE THE CLAIM THAT 2.3= 50. We're still waiting for this amazing new math

    .
    Last edited by GamerGal; Aug 1st, 2012 at 1:00 AM.
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  8. #33
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member sweetvelocity's Avatar
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    Healthcare costs have been increasing regardless of new taxes. We all know that. I agree that a 2.3 tax is not a reasonable reason to squash business growth, but in an election year it makes for a great piece of propaganda. The source alone should be a big red flag of BULLSHIT for you. Fox News is NOT a reliable source.
    Last edited by sweetvelocity; Aug 1st, 2012 at 8:38 AM.
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    Bite Me Contributor JenaS62's Avatar
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  10. #35
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member sweetvelocity's Avatar
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    Jena, why should I vote for a man that has personally capitalized off shipping American jobs overseas?
    " Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people's brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead." Arundhati Roy

  11. #36
    Iam puppy, hear me yap. Global Moderator lycanox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenaS62 View Post
    This is great news for the US. A potential 1500 jobs in the mid-west are not going to happen due to a tax on medical devices that goes into effect next year. Cook Medical was planning to open 3 new plants but cite the medical device tax as a reason to scrap the plans. The new tax is going to cost Cook Medical approximately 20 million per year and they will therefore look to expand their plants in other countries.

    Interestingly enough - I could not find a single left wing news source for this information. Must be something they would like to keep secret.


    "An Indiana-based medical equipment manufacturer says it's scrapping plans to open five new plants in the coming years because of a looming tax tied to President Obama's health care overhaul law.

    Cook Medical claims the tax on medical devices, set to take effect next year, will cost the company roughly $20 million a year, cutting into money that would otherwise go toward expanding into new facilities over the next five years.

    "This is the equivalent of about a plant a year that we're not going to be able to build," a company spokesman told FoxNews.com.

    He said the original plan was to build factories in "hard-pressed" Midwestern communities, each employing up to 300 people. But those factories cost roughly the same amount as the projected cost of the new tax.

    "In reality, we're not looking at the U.S. to build factories anymore as long as this tax is in place. We can't, to be competitive," he said.

    Company executive Pete Yonkman first revealed the scuttled plans in an interview with the Indianapolis Business Journal. The company later confirmed the decision to FoxNews.com.

    The Affordable Care Act imposed a 2.3 percent tax on medical devices beginning in 2013. It is projected raise nearly $30 billion over the next decade.

    But the Cook Medical spokesman said the impact is greater than just a 2.3 percent uptick in taxes. He said the impact on actual earnings is another 15 percent, and he projected the company's total tax burden next year will rise to over 50 percent.


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz228jWQ1R1
    And what is your response to the jobs and medical knowledge lost due to a lack of govenment funding caused by the republican stupid and downright insane drive to create an as small as possible government. Or due to the insurance companies. Which they believe should be in charge unwillingness to invest.

    You paint this as a problem with government meddling. But the truth is. The problem is far larger on the other side.
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  12. #37
    Bite Me Contributor JenaS62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetvelocity View Post
    Jena, why should I vote for a man that has personally capitalized off shipping American jobs overseas?

    As opposed to giving tax payer (stimulus money) to companies overseas?

  13. #38
    Survivalist! MaximumPain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenaS62 View Post
    As opposed to giving tax payer (stimulus money) to companies overseas?
    You say "as opposed to" Like Romney wouldn't give our tax dollars to overseas companies... you don't really believe that do you Jena?
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  14. #39
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member sweetvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenaS62 View Post
    As opposed to giving tax payer (stimulus money) to companies overseas?
    You did not answer the question. Chances are likely that Romney would gladly fork over tax payer money to overseas companies that he has a vested interest in. Obama did in fact spend stimulus money overseas. Because there is a shortage of American companies producing necessary components in the alternative energy sector. So in reality he was spending money a foreign market to try and create more alternative energy jobs/opportunities here in the US. And it worked. If those components were being made here in America the money would have stayed, but alternative energy is an evil monster to the GOP so it must be blocked at ALL costs.

    While we do have a shortage of alternative energy companies producing unique and necessary components, we do not have a shortage of willing employees. In short, Obama has a reasonable excuse and Romney is just a greedy business man.
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    Survivalist! Reef Badlaw's Avatar
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    Don't look at me... I wanted Cain's 999-plan.

    9% corporate tax. 9% National sales-tax. 9% flat-tax on household income. No deductions except for charity. Total tax-reform as a result.

    Dems fearing 999 is the same fear as the fear of Obamacare. I'd love to see 999 rammed down their throat in the same manner.
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  16. #41
    Bite Me Contributor JenaS62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetvelocity View Post
    So in reality he was spending money a foreign market to try and create more alternative energy jobs/opportunities here in the US. And it worked.

    Perhaps I missed where it worked. How exactly did it work?

  17. #42
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member sweetvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenaS62 View Post
    Perhaps I missed where it worked. How exactly did it work?
    Because domestic manufacturing in alternative energy grew for the first three years Obama was in office. Unfortunately the Oily hammer of the GOP has squelched the possibility for more growth in that sector for the time being.
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  18. #43
    Bite Me Contributor JenaS62's Avatar
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    Do you have any links for that? I'd like to read it for myself.

  19. #44
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member sweetvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenaS62 View Post
    Do you have any links for that? I'd like to read it for myself.
    I will supply you with numerous sources so you can see the trend.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...energy-was-ou/

    http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...rgy/?mobile=nc

    http://truth-out.org/news/item/9827-...block-13-times
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  20. #45
    Bite Me Contributor JenaS62's Avatar
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    Thank you Sweetvelocity. I will take a look.

  21. #46
    Survivalist! MaximumPain's Avatar
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    And people say the GOP is getting nothing done!!!
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  22. #47
    AO Feminazi GamerGal's Avatar
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    Well the House GOP have been busy!
    http://news.yahoo.com/60-house-bills...-politics.html
    Naming Post Offices...
    The Senate Democrats have produced Job Bills. The House Republicans.... Named Post Offices.
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  23. #48
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member SuperDig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GamerGal View Post
    Well the House GOP have been busy!
    http://news.yahoo.com/60-house-bills...-politics.html
    Naming Post Offices...
    The Senate Democrats have produced Job Bills. The House Republicans.... Named Post Offices.
    GG, define a "jobs bill" for me?

    Just to see if you have the first clue to what you're actually talking about.

  24. #49
    Bite Me Contributor JenaS62's Avatar
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    Wait for an irrelevant cartoon.

    And Obama has been very busy too, meeting with his jobs council. Oh wait....


    **edit

    Oh and I read the 3 links about alternate fuel increases under Obama. From everything else I have read its about a 27% increase. How much did that cost us again?

  25. #50
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member SuperDig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenaS62 View Post

    And Obama has been very busy too, meeting with his jobs council. Oh wait....
    Honestly, that's because when Obama "creates jobs", a stimulus package handout to someone usually comes with it.There is NO WAY Obama would be stupid enough to roll out another effort to "create jobs", as he calls it, this close to election time. If he's re-elected, watch out America .... the spending on his 2nd term will absolutely dwarf his 1st.

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