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Thread: Lilith or Eve? Female equality or not?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    The author of Revelation was schizophrenic.
    Truly something only an unenlightened person could say. That would mean the rest of your post is also in question. I would agreee that there is a false doctrine floating around in a form known as the tinily. The Bible doesn't promote that false Christians will teach the true Gospel, is it just your bad luck that you take those doctrines as what 'true Christian. promote.

    You are getting worship and respect mixed up.

    M'r:9:7:
    And there was a cloud that overshadowed them:
    and a voice came out of the cloud,
    saying,
    This is my beloved Son:
    hear him.

    Proverb:8:32-36:
    Now therefore hearken unto me,
    O ye children:
    for blessed are they that keep my ways.
    Hear instruction,
    and be wise,
    and refuse it not.

    Blessed is the man that heareth me,
    watching daily at my gates,
    waiting at the posts of my doors.
    For whoso findeth me findeth life,
    and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
    But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul:
    all they that hate me love death.

  2. #52
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHz View Post
    That would mean the rest of your post is also in question.
    That is a supposition.

    To prove that there is a reason to doubt the rest of my post, you would have to check it with logic.

    As it is, I see no evidence to suggest that the author of Revelations was sane.

    I would agreee that there is a false doctrine floating around in a form known as the tinily. The Bible doesn't promote that false Christians will teach the true Gospel, is it just your bad luck that you take those doctrines as what 'true Christian. promote.
    You are a master at being vague.

    What is the "true Christian" faith, then?

    You are getting worship and respect mixed up.
    Apparently.
    So how far does "respect" go for the "true Christian" faith?

    Try to be specific here, instead of using passages.

    I've seen people who believe jesus is God use passages from the same texts, so you really have to be clear if clarity is your goal.

    If clarity is not of interest to you, then don't bother.
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

  3. #53
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    Do you recall what the two Laws are that He left for followers?
    Last edited by MHz; Mar 6th, 2012 at 1:18 PM.

  4. #54
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHz View Post
    Do you rtecall what the two Laws are that He left for followers?
    Still inexplicit I see...
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

  5. #55
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    I can free up about a month of free time if you would would like the longer explanation.


    Jas:2:15:
    If a brother or sister be naked,
    and destitute of daily food,
    Jas:2:16:
    And one of you say unto them,
    Depart in peace,
    be ye warmed and filled;
    notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
    what doth it profit?
    Jas:2:17:
    Even so faith,
    if it hath not works,
    is dead,
    being alone.

  6. #56
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHz View Post
    I can free up about a month of free time if you would would like the longer explanation.


    Jas:2:15:
    If a brother or sister be naked,
    and destitute of daily food,
    Jas:2:16:
    And one of you say unto them,
    Depart in peace,
    be ye warmed and filled;
    notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
    what doth it profit?
    Jas:2:17:
    Even so faith,
    if it hath not works,
    is dead,
    being alone.
    In other words...

    ..."Judge ye by acts within ye gates."

    That's still fairly nebulous...


    So jesus is the example to live by... Sure.
    But jesus still wasn't perfect, so ultimately, you still have to go by God.
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

  7. #57
    Survivalist! Lillith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHz View Post
    Who do you think are the ones that buy and sell things? Merchants can/do abuse consumers, the momey-changers that got tossed out twice were 'merchants'. If you want to live under the delusion that the company towns of the industrial revolution were geared towards the rights of the workers over the rights of the company (to do to the worker that compared to to Royalty and their right to work the peasants to death if that was a desired goal. You really should learn to recognize a false Christian for what they are. Although they have chosen the role of middle-man they can be just as vicious as the usury agents. The rights of citizens in Canada can all be null and voided by two words spoken by the PM (and agent for the Queen rather than an agent of the people)

    (a basic definition)

    The Templars of the Crown

    Find a long video on Admirality Law to see the real difference between Merchant and Comsumers. Being a comumer means you can be consumed by the merchants.
    Copying in quote your entire reply would be just a silly waste of bandwith.

    I was referring to education, literacy and how oral story telling was tradition. And how that story telling related to the classes that had the bible read and interpreted to them by those few classes of people who WERE educated - aka who could read.

    AND YOU are now talking about some wild tangent regarding the Magna Carta, Templars of the Crown and merchants?

    Seriously, MHZ, I am now convinced you have problems with reading comprehension or some form of ADD. Its seems theres difficulty intellectual difficulty following the ball.

    And as a side note? I have no doubt that Revelation was written by a delusional, extemely depressed perhaps schizo who held a morbid facination with death and destruction.

    We actually can bear witness to a modern version of the same paranoia, delusions of grandeur,, mental disorder(s) in WORD.

    Im actually surprised that the Papists haven't called him to Rome to cannonize him.

    So, why, would someone call WORD CRAZY, and not read the words of Revelation and the now blessed St John, and come to the same conclusion? That they are both loonies - bats in the belfrey.
    Galadriel: "I amar prestar aen. Han mathon ne nen. Han mathon ne chae. A han noston ne 'wilith. "Translation: "The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air."

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    That's still fairly nebulous...


    So jesus is the example to live by... Sure.
    But jesus still wasn't perfect, so ultimately, you still have to go by God.
    The world is only defined as being 'good' at the end of the 6 creation days. Perfection isn't achieved until the new earth is up and running. John the Baptist was called by God, Jesus was also called by God in the same manner. The changes He made actually was a benefit to the 12 Tribes in the time they were to be scattered into the nations in the mission to publish the Bible ion all the corners of the world.

    The laws are no different than the original 10 Commandments. There was an easing in dietary restrictions, would you like to read the exact passage?

    Perfection for men comes during the time they are alive during the 1,000 year reign, they increase in holiness and righteousness. They enter as Believers, when Satan is released they are perfected to the status of Saint.

    Heb:12:23:
    To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
    which are written in heaven,
    and to God the Judge of all,
    and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillith View Post
    Copying in quote your entire reply would be just a silly waste of bandwidth.
    You are promoting that you have the truth, that is a long way off from being a fact.

    I was referring to education, literacy and how oral story telling was tradition. And how that story telling related to the classes that had the bible read and interpreted to them by those few classes of people who WERE educated - aka who could read.
    So reading was the qualification in the past, when was that revised to be more than reading ability? Listening to teachers from the past only has value if they were correct in their interpretation. It is impossibe for an interpretation to be right if it was based on writings that do not include all 66 books.

    AND YOU are now talking about some wild tangent regarding the Magna Carta, Templars of the Crown and merchants?
    You are saying all men are 'free' that is not close to being true, nor is the Church the prime instigator, soldiers and their owners are Merchants also, all wars have merchandise playing some role. Might as well start at the top if they are going to be part of the discussion.

    Seriously, MHZ, I am now convinced you have problems with reading comprehension or some form of ADD. Its seems theres difficulty intellectual difficulty following the ball.
    I'll take notice when you are supplying answers to questions that have me stumped, right now the relationship is just the opposite.

    And as a side note? I have no doubt that Revelation was written by a delusional, extemely depressed perhaps schizo who held a morbid facination with death and destruction.
    Or you don't understand what it is revealing. I'm surprised that you're surprised that having sin and death in Revelation is unusual in that it is their destruction that is the main theme of the 'revelations' that were saved for the last few words of the complete word of god.

    We actually can bear witness to a modern version of the same paranoia, delusions of grandeur,, mental disorder(s) in WORD.
    It's apparently going to get better, 2/3 of the world totally sucked in by Satan, that's much higher than false Christians can manage, They do about 10 -15% in the US

    Im actually surprised that the Papists haven't called him to Rome to cannonize him.
    I think you are fibbing, just an initial gut reaction, you should be relieved.

    So, why, would someone call WORD CRAZY, and not read the words of Revelation and the now blessed St John, and come to the same conclusion? That they are both loonies - bats in the belfrey.
    Who says a stick has to be used on different people in the same way. Is WORD going to move up from preaching to a deserted streeet to beinh in the middle of the OWS protests that are gearing up as we speak? I;m certainly glad he gave up the idea that he had to buy the pistol that will be used to kill him for 3 1/2 days. You are a different fish from WORD, that doesn't mean you aren't just another fish though.

  10. #60
    Survivalist! Lillith's Avatar
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    =MHz;487320].

    So reading was the qualification in the past, when was that revised to be more than reading ability? Listening to teachers from the past only has value if they were correct in their interpretation. It is impossibe for an interpretation to be right if it was based on writings that do not include all 66 books.
    And you're saying, if it aint in the good Books 66 Books it aint true, and that only whats in those books is infallible.

    Again. I was referring to people who COULD NOT READ (that book) and of the significance of people being taught and teaching, through ORAL tradition and story telling in all or any religions and traditions, myths or fairy tales.


    You are saying all men are 'free' that is not close to being true, nor is the Church the prime instigator, soldiers and their owners are Merchants also, all wars have merchandise playing some role. Might as well start at the top if they are going to be part of the discussion.
    Uncle. I have no idea what your trying to say now about men being "free". What does this have to do with the passing of religion to the illiterate masses through oral traditions - prior to education of the masses. Now, if you're trying to say that christian merchant/soldiers sold religion as a means to salvation, well. I'd have to agree. lol The Crusades come to mind, just as Iraq does.


    Or you don't understand what it is revealing. I'm surprised that you're surprised that having sin and death in Revelation is unusual in that it is their destruction that is the main theme of the 'revelations' that were saved for the last few words of the complete word of god.

    Can I recommend Poes "The Pit and the Pendulum" to you? Me thinks you will find it on par with Revelation and just as titilating. And with a little bit of imagination and effort you can eventually link this work of art to be inspired by god as well. After all, another mad man authored it.

    Though I've read them both, neither is my particular cup of sci fi horror.


    It's apparently going to get better, 2/3 of the world totally sucked in by Satan, that's much higher than false Christians can manage, They do about 10 -15% in the US
    Nice, that the Christians have it all down pat and summaried so tiday and nice. I dont buy into this fear factor. No sale. Sorry.

    Satan is a mythological creation. Mere references only. There is no empiracal evidence that it exists other than as a creation of / and in the minds of men.

    And I find that people who are the most preoccupied with him/it are the most fear filled, phobic types of people.

    And yes, i know the chorus lines. Christians are warned as part of their cult indoctrination processes - to ignore, admonish or rebuke others, as false prophets, those with false tongues who do not acknowledge christ as their savior. They are part of satans followers and/or decietful persons of questionable character being influenced by satan.

    Christians give Satan MORE homage as worshippers than those non believers you accuse of being under its influence.


    MHZ. you and I go a few rounds now and then and that's fine, I rather like you. And in a way, truly understand you, and your fears.

    But I will tell you what I predict. That the concept of God and creation, the quest for knowledge and the marvel of mystery will always exist and be sought, but that RELIGION as practiced today wil go the way of the dinasour. With greater understanding than that of a naive child people will always seek answers to their questions.

    Just as people now comprehend there were those who held fast and strong to the belief the world was flat and that human sacrifices were needed to apease the gods of famine, harvests and weather, people will one day comprehend how ridiculous it was to forfeit their god given intelligence to the fears inherent in Revelation.
    Galadriel: "I amar prestar aen. Han mathon ne nen. Han mathon ne chae. A han noston ne 'wilith. "Translation: "The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air."

  11. #61
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHz View Post
    The world is only defined as being 'good' at the end of the 6 creation days.
    Because the creation story was written in English, wasn't it?
    Therefore, whatever subtle meaning the English "good" intones is empirical...

    Right...

    Perfection isn't achieved until the new earth is up and running.[/Quote]
    Doesn't actually answer my request for a clarification of what "true" Christianity is.

    John the Baptist was called by God, Jesus was also called by God in the same manner. The changes He made actually was a benefit to the 12 Tribes in the time they were to be scattered into the nations in the mission to publish the Bible ion all the corners of the world.
    World doesn't have corners.
    Even if the writers of the Tanakh believed that it did.

    The laws are no different than the original 10 Commandments. There was an easing in dietary restrictions, would you like to read the exact passage?
    I think the diet restrictions are fun...

    Perfection for men comes during the time they are alive during the 1,000 year reign, they increase in holiness and righteousness.
    Well, that's all conjecture.

    There is no reason to believe that God did not create the world perfect as it is.
    Pointing out that "good" is less than "perfect" in "English" is stupid. The creation story isn't English...

    They enter as Believers, when Satan is released they are perfected to the status of Saint.
    Why do you believe in satan so staunchly?
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillith View Post
    And you're saying, if it aint in the good Books 66 Books it aint true, and that only whats in those books is infallible.
    Lots of effort goes into the Bible if you could measure the good and the bad at the same time. The way I feel about all those various passages is not the very same today as it was even 5 years ago. Minor changes have been made and explaining some things is slightly different, the basics are still the basics.

    Again. I was referring to people who COULD NOT READ (that book) and of the significance of people being taught and teaching, through ORAL tradition and story telling in all or any religions and traditions, myths or fairy tales.
    Read as if the audience was the people of the same time period. Daniel is told flat out not to try and understand all he wrote as there was to be more info coming before the end. Even Revelation being in print may not have been the total fulfillment of that prophecy. One reader such as myself cab gather raw data much faster than any 'reader' before. As big and as broken up as the prophecies are they still have a finite amount of words. If the Bible makes sense to you as a Jew by reading it from Genesis to Revelation then that's fine. I see that as being the verses that apply to the bruise to the heel.

    You don't have to accept what is proposed below as being right, that doesn't stop it from being right. If it is I just have to find the right combination of words that gets you to just see what my version is even proposing. In short the other bruise in Ge:3:15 can be pieced together by using Revelation as the first book and then backtracking through all the prophecies in other parts of the Bible in order to get the best vision of what the Bible says that event will be like. Yes it means in a literal fashion because the cross was a physical event.

    That creates a conflict between us as the OT has to be literal and even the fallen angels have to be literal in order for my version to work. I also admit proof is not part of the doctrine, it even uses the Bible to support that God is smart enough not to leave proof of His existence laying around when 'words in a book' are the gathering method.


    Uncle. I have no idea what your trying to say now about men being "free". What does this have to do with the passing of religion to the illiterate masses through oral traditions - prior to education of the masses. Now, if you're trying to say that christian merchant/soldiers sold religion as a means to salvation, well. I'd have to agree. lol The Crusades come to mind, just as Iraq does.
    Maybe I got off onto a different path, here is the quote I took off from.


    "What you dont seem to understand is that education and literacy is a 19th Century development regading the "masses", especially with regard to the poor. Prior to this century the majority of people, the rich and the clergy were the classes that were educated. Parables, word of mouth story telling was the way to pass information down from the generations, however it was intrepreted and relayed to others. And what? People don't/aren't inclined put their own personal "spin" on a story in the retelling?

    You are a stellar example.

    There's no doubt the clergy thought God was impressed when they preached to the uneducated and gullible. And it goes without saying that people who today, just because they have reading and writing skills and access to a Bible, consider themselves..........learned scholars. Ahem.... "

    In todays world the middle class are consumers, business owners do not see them as being equals even if 'we' can read and think. What the elite fail to take into account is leaps forward have come from new people coming into the field who have new ways of looking at old problems. That is not saying the transition is welcomed at any point. Many scientists had their careers ruined for what they promoted, even when their thoughts were right on the mark.

    Is that your argument so you don't have to discuss passage specifics with me? How old is the dodge of attack the messenger if the message can't be attacked.

    People today think the Magna Carta protects them or grants them rights, the truth is it it sets the line between master and slave in society. Every Nation has it's version of Leader/Military and the Ruled Over. Canada has had the same two party system for 150 years, it is a Dictatorship where two dictators take turns as it trcks the Ruled into believing they are nor being ruled over. Smoke and mirrors and new stage name but the show is the same old, same old ruler, ruled that has always existed even when religion played no part at all in society. If anything the 'sword' is less subtle than deceptions.


    Can I recommend Poes "The Pit and the Pendulum" to you? Me thinks you will find it on par with Revelation and just as titilating. And with a little bit of imagination and effort you can eventually link this work of art to be inspired by god as well. After all, another mad man authored it.
    All this means is that if you ever do catch onto the message and it makes sense you will become one og the Books biggest fans. If ou find it confusing and you are quite intelligent and the Book was gibberish the first few times you read it but then things started to mesh that increaded the mental picture that was being drawn. By the time the picture was complete it covered many passages from all over the Bible. What are the odds that many writers could have created something that complex when they were struggling with year end inventories and keeping records of that information. A novel is not going to pull away the few who could write, they wrote what they were told to write in most cases. OT Prophets certainly were given specific things to say and in a certain way that only become clear to readers that are reading today.

    The first time I read the entire NT I had one thing that I could claim as being 'true. Paul told some to eat and drink (the Bible in the quest for knowledge about God) at home and he would set the rest in order when he came to visit. Jesus gave us the Bible to 'ingest' until He returns to set things in order. If I know more now then something more must have happened in the 25 years since that happened. I don't run into many ;learned Christians' who can counter some of the things that I say the Bible promotes. Getting stumped for an answer hasn't happened for awhile and even then an answer was found in some part of the Bible. I'm pretty comfortable with that method.

    Though I've read them both, neither is my particular cup of sci fi horror.
    Like I said you should try reading some of the good news just to balance it with the bad things. There is no shortage of either yet you seem to be just focused on one aspect, if God has two side s you are slanting the story by closing off one side, JMHO

    Nice, that the Christians have it all down pat and summaried so tiday and nice. I dont buy into this fear factor. No sale. Sorry.
    Do you see anything in the 7 letters to the 7 Churches that should be envied, each Church as believers and sinners in it. How is a sinner in a Church (most likely the most powerful in the Church at the same time) not as fully bad for believers as was Saul before his conversion? I'm only selling the part that explains why I am a believer and why I'm at odds with what other Christians promote in terms of what the prophecies mean.

    Satan is a mythological creation. Mere references only. There is no empiracal evidence that it exists other than as a creation of / and in the minds of men.
    Totally agree, kind of ruins their 'return' if they are roaming about before that appointed time. There is a script that has to be followed.

    And I find that people who are the most preoccupied with him/it are the most fear filled, phobic types of people.
    Satan is part of the Bible, the main bad guy in fact, have you ever seen me promote anything other than that? I don;t believe people can actually be lied to for their own good, I think only liars would say that so they can lie about something that would not be received warmly if told straight out what was up.

    And yes, i know the chorus lines. Christians are warned as part of their cult indoctrination processes - to ignore, admonish or rebuke others, as false prophets, those with false tongues who do not acknowledge christ as their savior. They are part of satans followers and/or decietful persons of questionable character being influenced by satan.
    All thos points are valid, not all atv the same time not anot all happening at the same time. Lots of verses say to be careful about what you accept as fact. F act can find 3 other references that support it, a false doctrine won't, it's that easy.

    Christians give Satan MORE homage as worshippers than those non believers you accuse of being under its influence.
    The 'day of the Lord' is the most covered day in the Bible, those pwople must be missing some of them if they have Satan as being the most referenced.

    MHZ. you and I go a few rounds now and then and that's fine, I rather like you. And in a way, truly understand you, and your fears.
    My only fear is I won't write something in a way that means I have to rewite it in anotehr way. lol Arguing is cool, getting into a rut where insults get passexd back and forth is not so cool. I'' thankful we avoid that pitfall.

    But I will tell you what I predict. That the concept of God and creation, the quest for knowledge and the marvel of mystery will always exist and be sought, but that RELIGION as practiced today wil go the way of the dinasour. With greater understanding than that of a naive child people will always seek answers to their questions.
    Okay, I'll take the other side, all I have to do is wait, same method I use when leading a horse to water, get there, wait, horse drinks, leave, mission complete.


    Just as people now comprehend there were those who held fast and strong to the belief the world was flat and that human sacrifices were needed to apease the gods of famine, harvests and weather, people will one day comprehend how ridiculous it was to forfeit their god given intelligence to the fears inherent in Revelation.
    People fear the price of gas, lol It would be a relieved society if they only had God to fear.

    Later.

  13. #63
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    With regards the opening post. Lilith has only been considered the first wife of Adam in very recent times. From ancient times she was a demoness associated with night terrors and the killing of new born babies. According to the lessor keys of Solomon he nailed her head to the temple wall by her hair while it was still under construction. She has never been considered anything other than a malevolent demon until this just passed century. Now of course anything occult is exulted as would be expected in the run up to the last days.

    As for equality of the sexes. Reality check, there is little equal about us. We come with different bodies designed to do different things and together we are able to raise following generations. This whole equality movement is ludicrous. Woman want to be men and men are expected to behave like woman and society is a mess with confused kids and moral decay and acts of violence that you would expect to find in primitive tribes of savages. Men dominate and woman manipulate and we now limp from one disaster to the next. When the whole house of cards comes crashing down then maybe some common sense will prevail.
    Blessings in the name of my Lord Jesus Christ who came in the flesh and now sits at the right hand of our God on high.

    A confession of faith that the modern Evangelical movement can no longer make!

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Because the creation story was written in English, wasn't it?
    Therefore, whatever subtle meaning the English "good" intones is empirical...
    You are basically saying the translators of OT Hebrew were too stupid to do it. Check the preface, they consulted with Jewish scholars, if errors were there (and there are none) the hired pros were at fault.

    Doesn't actually answer my request for a clarification of what "true" Christianity is.
    How much time you got? Jews who balked at accepting the 'updates' that comes with teaching Gentiles about God. The first acts they would have witnesses would have been Jews killing other Jews because they had a difference in 'opinion' that came with works that were at least equal to what any OT Prophet showed as a sign that they were sent by God. The same proofs would mean it is the same God, right?

    World doesn't have corners.
    Even if the writers of the Tanakh believed that it did.
    See what I mean when I say you throw out objections that are beyond reason. Is that some form of 'protection from corruption by the Christian NT.

    The are covered by the verse below is pretty plain, you would really have to have an agenda to deny it. Downright scary when yo consider Revelation reveals that are to be 1/4 of the earth's surface.

    Jer:
    25:26:
    And all the kings of the north,
    far and near,
    one with another,
    and all the kingdoms of the world,
    which are upon the face of the earth:
    and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.

    Jer:25:33:
    And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth:
    they shall not be lamented,
    neither gathered,
    nor buried;
    they shall be dung upon the ground.

    Re:6:8:
    And I looked,
    and behold a pale horse:
    and his name that sat on him was Death,
    and Hell followed with him.
    And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth,
    to kill with sword,
    and with hunger,
    and with death,
    and with the beasts of the earth.

    I think the diet restrictions are fun...
    Again an answer that avoids the reason and the timing. Peter got the vision moments before some Gentiles came to take him to a house full of Gentiles that were gathered to hear about the God of the Jews, the actual one that raises people from the grave, rather than the one telling parables because they were easier to remember than 'facts'. To follow the OT converting all Gentile over to the diets imposed on the 12 Tribes would have been a task all by itself would it not?
    .
    Well, that's all conjecture.
    Prophecies tend to only come in that single flavor. In my world having as clear a picture as you can about what the prophecies mean is a way of judging if they have been fulfilled or not. I shutter to ask what they mean to you and your group.

    Heb:7:11:
    If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood,
    (for under it the people received the law,)
    what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec,
    and not be called after the order of Aaron?

    Heb:7:19:
    For the law made nothing perfect,
    but the bringing in of a better hope did;
    by the which we draw nigh unto God.

    Heb:8:6:
    But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry,
    by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant,
    which was established upon better promises.
    Heb:8:7:
    For if that first covenant had been faultless,
    then should no place have been sought for the second.
    Heb:8:8:
    For finding fault with them,
    he saith,
    Behold,
    the days come,
    saith the Lord,
    when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    Be happy to give you some more OT references to the same idea promoted in th one reference below.

    Eze:39:27:
    When I have brought them again from the people,
    and gathered them out of their enemies' lands,
    and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
    Eze:39:28:
    Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God,
    which cause them to be led into captivity among the heathen:
    but I have gathered them unto their own land,
    and have left none of them any more there.
    Eze:39:29:
    Neither will I hide my face any more from them:
    for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel,
    saith the Lord GOD.

    Jesus is not stuttering in the verse where He says 'from the people' and 'enemies's lands' are two different places. Once you can see things like that then you are answering more questions that you are creating.


    The
    re is no reason to believe that God did not create the world perfect as it is.
    Pointing out that "good" is less than "perfect" in "English" is stupid. The creation story isn't English...
    Still if it was made perfect nobody could have sinned an mankind would never know about good and evil. In the perfect version we do know that and we remain alive for eternity in a kingdom without end. In a perfect would the sacrifices for sin should have been able to ward off death, it doesn't so there is more to the story.

    Why do you believe in satan so staunchly?
    Fallen angels are major players in Revelation, especially the 5th and 6th trumps. Jude is the last chapter before Revelation and it is about fallen angels from start to finish. I would be happy to explain each verse to you but we both know that would be a waste of space at this stage. Updating your version has to be done sooner or later, sooner is better because Jews aren't immune from falling for a deception, especially one that plays on their inflated ego (for the ones that have inflated ones)

    There are ungodly men around that aren't Christians. One very good thing about a supernatural God is you can't fake being Him and easy to spot if He is there or if He isn't. The dead rising is sign #1, anything short is not God of the NT so it can rightfully be called fiction today. That doesn't mean it is a bad idea to know what other signs there will be cause the dead rising is an after possession is complete type of thing. Not my fault God left so much information about those days.

  15. #65
    Survivalist! Lillith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    With regards the opening post. Lilith has only been considered the first wife of Adam in very recent times. From ancient times she was a demoness associated with night terrors and the killing of new born babies. According to the lessor keys of Solomon he nailed her head to the temple wall by her hair while it was still under construction. She has never been considered anything other than a malevolent demon until this just passed century. Now of course anything occult is exulted as would be expected in the run up to the last days.

    Archibald Sayce (1882) considered that Hebrew lilit (or lilith) Hebrew: לילית‎; and Akkadian: līlītu are from proto-Semitic. Charles Fossey (1902) has this literally translating to "female night being/demon", although cuneiform inscriptions exist where Līlīt and Līlītu refers to disease-bearing wind spirits.


    Another possibility is association not with "night", but with "wind", thus identifying the Akkadian Lil-itu as a loan from the
    Sumerian lil, "air" — specifically from Ninlil, "lady air", goddess of the south wind (and wife of Enlil) — and itud, "moon.



    A connection between the Gilgamesh ki-sikil-lil-la-ke and the Jewish Lilith was rejected by Dietrich Opitz (1932)[18] and other scholars, finally being rejected on textual grounds by Sergio Ribichini.

    According to a new source from Late Antiquity the Lilith(s) appear(s) in a Mandaic magic story where she (they) is (are) considered to represent the branch(es) of a tree with other demonic figures that form other parts of the tree.

    Suggested translations for the Tablet XII spirit in the tree include ki-sikil as "sacred place", lil as "spirit", and lil-la-ke as "water spirit". but also simply "owl", given that the lil is building a home in the trunk of the tree.


    So, it all DEPENDS on whose writings one is inclined to give more credence too and which myths, tales and legends one gravitates towards.

    For those who see demons everywhere they look, under rocks, hiding in closets, under their beds, even in tree branches....well, expect the expected to be believed. Almost everything with regard to intrepretation is in the mind and eye of the beholder.

    The FACT is that NO ONE really knows biddly boop about Lillith.
    Galadriel: "I amar prestar aen. Han mathon ne nen. Han mathon ne chae. A han noston ne 'wilith. "Translation: "The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air."

  16. #66
    Survivalist! Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    With regards the opening post. Lilith has only been considered the first wife of Adam in very recent times. From ancient times she was a demoness associated with night terrors and the killing of new born babies. According to the lessor keys of Solomon he nailed her head to the temple wall by her hair while it was still under construction. She has never been considered anything other than a malevolent demon until this just passed century. Now of course anything occult is exulted as would be expected in the run up to the last days.

    As for equality of the sexes. Reality check, there is little equal about us. We come with different bodies designed to do different things and together we are able to raise following generations. This whole equality movement is ludicrous. Woman want to be men and men are expected to behave like woman and society is a mess with confused kids and moral decay and acts of violence that you would expect to find in primitive tribes of savages. Men dominate and woman manipulate and we now limp from one disaster to the next. When the whole house of cards comes crashing down then maybe some common sense will prevail.
    The present sense is a product of primarily male run governments and male run religions. Are you saying that common sense will come from the female side?

    Regards
    DL

  17. #67
    Survivalist! Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillith View Post
    Archibald Sayce (1882) considered that Hebrew lilit (or lilith) Hebrew: לילית‎; and Akkadian: līlītu are from proto-Semitic. Charles Fossey (1902) has this literally translating to "female night being/demon", although cuneiform inscriptions exist where Līlīt and Līlītu refers to disease-bearing wind spirits.


    Another possibility is association not with "night", but with "wind", thus identifying the Akkadian Lil-itu as a loan from the
    Sumerian lil, "air" — specifically from Ninlil, "lady air", goddess of the south wind (and wife of Enlil) — and itud, "moon


    So, it all DEPENDS on whose writings one is inclined to credence too and which myths, tales and legend on gravitates too.

    The FACT is that NO ONE really knows biddly boop about Lillith.
    If as today, she represented equality, it is understandable why she was swept under the carpet and vilified.
    She did not fit in well with those chauvinistic men who wrote the bible.

    As with much of the Gnostic texts, Christianity tried and failed to get rid of her completely.

    Ashera went the same way.

    Regards
    DL

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillith View Post
    The FACT is that NO ONE really knows biddly boop about Lillith.
    Is that the allure or is she a distraction from having to deal with information that is given. biddly boop will evaporate if the question was about the two Babylons in the Bible and if Jeremiah covers both of them or just one. It is a question that would seem to require reading the actual verses. God never destroyed Neb's Babylon, Satan's Babylon faces total destruction. That is a major difference and it helps speed up the sorting task. Since there are many verses would that hinder speculation to some degree. The less speculation the more the verses speak for themselves, the more that happens the less interpretation taking place as it is plainly understood already.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    If as today, she represented equality, it is understandable why she was swept under the carpet and vilified.
    She did not fit in well with those chauvinistic men who wrote the bible.

    As with much of the Gnostic texts, Christianity tried and failed to get rid of her completely.
    Enoch wasn't erased, Jude is a summary of what His book covered. Several books are mentioned in the or , Jasher and the Book of Wars of the Lord. That last one should have the names af all the people that died in the exodus wars, they are due for resurrection at the start of the 1,000 years. The ones that die at Jesus's return could also be in that same book and their names become important after the 1,000 years is over.

    The beloved Disciple being a 'mature woman about 30 or so' is repressed today and the text to prove it is being repressed is there yet nobody touches that with a 10 ft pole. We all willingly take part in sweeping dust under the carpet, a good reason to do a through house-cleaning.

    Jer:51:33:
    For thus saith the LORD of hosts,
    the God of Israel;
    The daughter of Babylon is like a threshingfloor,
    it is time to thresh her:
    yet a little while,
    and the time of her harvest shall come.

    Ho:13:3:
    Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud,
    and as the early dew that passeth away,
    as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor,
    and as the smoke out of the chimney

  20. #70
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHz View Post
    You are basically saying the translators of OT Hebrew were too stupid to do it.
    No.

    I am saying that YOU are too stupid to understand that English is NOT empirical to Hebrew.

    I don't care if you are the smartest being in the universe, you cannot force the word "tov (טוב)" to be an exact synonym for "good."

    טוב DOES NOT MEAN LESS THAN PERFECT.

    GOOD means less than perfect.

    Tov means tov.

    Check the preface, they consulted with Jewish scholars, if errors were there (and there are none) the hired pros were at fault.
    I'm not questioning translators.

    I'm questioning your stupid extrapolation of the facts.

    For all practical purposes, "good" is the most viable and accurate English word for "tov."

    However, you are saying that since "good" is less than "perfect" in English, then "tov" must be less than the English word "PERFECT."

    That's absurd.

    You cannot use English and Hebrew interchangeably to make an empirical argument based on linguistics.

    I will NOT allow you to.

    You may formally refer to me as the Linguistic Nazi, because I have absolutely zero tolerance for stupidity when it comes to the empirical use of languages.


    Until you use an empirical argument consisting of Hebrew, I will insist that you abide by a logical standard.

    You cannot compare "טוב" to "perfect," because the comparison cannot be made.

    "טוב" actually indicates perfection. Tov means "that's perfect."

    Good, in English, can mean "that's ok."

    And that is the definition for "good" that you are using. You are using the English definition of "good" that means "ok" or "mediocre" or "sufficient" or "nominally and/or reasonably acceptable."

    "Good" is a logical translation of "tov," but "tov" does NOT mean "ok," "mediocre," "sufficient," or "nominally and/or reasonably acceptable."


    To put it bluntly... Words have multiple definitions. Just because one of the definitions matches up, doesn't mean all of them do.
    "Tov" is already used to mean something like "perfect" quite frequently.

    It does not signify the English use of "good" to mean "ok/decent/meh."

    It does not.

    /Lingual Nazi rant over


    How much time you got? Jews who balked at accepting the 'updates' that comes with teaching Gentiles about God. The first acts they would have witnesses would have been Jews killing other Jews because they had a difference in 'opinion' that came with works that were at least equal to what any OT Prophet showed as a sign that they were sent by God. The same proofs would mean it is the same God, right?
    I don't care.

    I asked you a simple question: What is "true" Christianity, without being indescript?

    You, apparently, are incapable of answering the question.

    [Quote]The are covered by the verse below is pretty plain, you would really have to have an agenda to deny it. Downright scary when yo consider Revelation reveals that are to be 1/4 of the earth's surface.

    Be happy to give you some more OT references to the same idea promoted in th one reference below.
    I do not care about English for non-English works.

    So, no thank you.

    The English is not that relevant for me.

    Fallen angels are major players in Revelation, especially the 5th and 6th trumps. Jude is the last chapter before Revelation and it is about fallen angels from start to finish. I would be happy to explain each verse to you but we both know that would be a waste of space at this stage. Updating your version has to be done sooner or later, sooner is better because Jews aren't immune from falling for a deception, especially one that plays on their inflated ego (for the ones that have inflated ones)
    Revelations and Romans are both stupid.

    Romans 10:9 says that you must believe in jesus to be saved.

    That's utter illogical bullshit.

    I have a hard time being convinced by pagan stupidity (as opposed to Hinduism, which is pagan wisdom--Christians give Hindus a bad name). If Romans can be so fundamentally polytheistic, then it doesn't bode well for dumb books like Revelations.
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

  21. #71
    Survivalist! Lillith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    The present sense is a product of primarily male run governments and male run religions. Are you saying that common sense will come from the female side?

    Regards
    DL
    Yes, quite possibly. lol

    O.M.G. Can you imagine, an organization called Lilith, comprised of.....of JEWISH women ? OMG. The MUST be demon inspired occultists! lol


    Seriously, people. Need to get a grip on their fears.

    http://www.lilith.org/about.htm

    OMG...and another.....

    Welcome to the online home of The Lilith Institute,
    a center for learning which seeks to transmit many types of knowledge -- oral, written, iconographic, spiritual, emotional, and embodied. In schools or online, in private homes or community centers, we work to connect women with each other and to themselves.

    Among the Institute's goals:

    - continue planting seeds for spiritual change, social action and greater cross-cultural understanding;
    - critically examine existing patterns of thought, behavior and language through new lenses, acting as a catalyst for personal and cultural transformation;
    - facilitate an ongoing exchange of ideas across diverse spiritual traditions; and
    - encourage women to recognize their potential to be change agents in their own communities and the world.
    http://www.lilithinstitute.com/default.html

    =Traveler;487366]

    With regards the opening post. Lilith has only been considered the first wife of Adam in very recent times. From ancient times she was a demoness associated with night terrors and the killing of new born babies.

    According to the lessor keys of Solomon he nailed her head to the temple wall by her hair while it was still under construction.

    She has never been considered anything other than a malevolent demon until this just passed century. Now of course anything occult is exulted as would be expected in the run up to the last days.
    But of course....she must be representative of an ancient demon, according to Solomon. I'd wager you think so.

    Well here's another a reality check Trav. :) It is beyond any doubt that the above referenced Lilliths can and would nail a few heads to the temple walls themselves, and not look back or even think twice about doing it.
    Last edited by Lillith; Mar 8th, 2012 at 10:24 AM.

  22. #72
    Survivalist! Lillith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post

    World doesn't have corners.
    Even if the writers of the Tanakh believed that it did.

    If the earth were flat and square, it most definately would. But we know its not. They could have believed it was a flat circle which is just as ignorant. One really has to take a moment to reflect and consider what else they were wrong about.
    Last edited by Lillith; Mar 8th, 2012 at 10:20 AM.
    Galadriel: "I amar prestar aen. Han mathon ne nen. Han mathon ne chae. A han noston ne 'wilith. "Translation: "The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air."

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