Would you make a sacrifice?

[palerider]

I suppose in the current world we live in the greatest sacrifice is to rid ourselves of our possessions and wealth and give the proceeds to the poor, of course in doing so we would commit ourselves to a life of poverty. Below is quoted Mathew 19:21. There is the Christian religious connotation, but I think philosophically there is more to this than just the Christian view:
‘If thou wilt be perfect , go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor...come follow me’

This is a philosophy as any other. In terms of making a sacrifice it asks something that few of us would actually do, but my motive isn't that, but about individual choices, when would you make a personal sacrifice to a greater good?
Is there a sacrifice you’d be prepared to make? Why would you make it and what would drive you?

[MHz]

I rent a place that allows pets, when I move out it will be torn down due to age and condition (the house not me although I am running a close 2nd). That makes me answering sort of worthless as saying yes would not really be a valid or truthful answer. That being said I doubt any 'owners' in the story the link references are very happy about giving up their properties (if they were even still in the country which I expect not many were since it would have been owned by international companies which were more or less booted out because they cared only about themselves)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-2367385.html

By rights aren't you required to answer your own question, just sayin ....

[Tired Old Man]

The greater good.......
Give a man a fish and he eats for the day. Teach him to fish and he eats for a life time.

[MHz]

These days the trawlers would be right behind the man, soon as he got his fish they would net the whole pond and then he would have to buy it back from the World Bank.

[Tired Old Man]

These days the trawlers would be right behind the man, soon as he got his fish they would net the whole pond and then he would have to buy it back from the World Bank.

Roll a joint....relax...... If I have to explain this, I give up.

[MHz]

Relax, back in the day we used a plow and some seeds as the example. What's a 'joint'?

[palerider]

Lol...not quite the conversation I had anticipated. I suppose MHz renting is in a way giving up your worldly possesions...albeit one of them....but does it count as a sacrifice?

I deliberately posted this on the religion forum as so many 'believers' claim their faith in God, but so far when it boils down to any real committment there is as yet no real response.

We all make small sacrifices in some way in our lives, but I'm not talking about the simplicities and the ease with which we emotionally and spiritually deal with them. I am talking of absolute devotion to a cause, a cause that transgresses all other things.

The most difficult of scarifices that we might make are painful and deep. Indeed the true sacrifices that may be required of us are only endurable if they are made with our unconditional love.

Perhaps, this simplicity but at the same time overwhelming demand of us, denies us the insightfulness to consider such a sacrifice?

[palerider]

Well I'm astonsihed no Christian or theist has offered any further response to the ultimate call from God.....interesting??

[palerider]

Posted again on 9th on another thread....Marker!!

[mad cowboy]

Hi I hope I'm not reading what your really asking. What is the ultimate sacrifice,? Are you asking what belief we hold strong enough to give our lives over. I mean giving up your possessions, you should always ask yourself who owns who? Just like billions of people have in the last few years blink and everything you owned or cared for is gone.

Scary territory dying for a cause is almost always fruitless. Even then it wouldn't be the greatest sacrifice for me as almost a Buddhist I'd just be recycled. The trouble with being prepared to die for a cause , it cheapens your value of life and the next thing you know you want to take as many with you as you can.

[mad cowboy]

For some reason Your question made me think if?

If

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!
Rudyard Kipling

[Confuzion]

It's about having blind trust in "God" and allowing your life to be controlled by luck and intuition. The more worldly possessions you have, the less you are with "God".

You see, possessions are valuables and as such equal money. The next logical things to say is the more you own, the more you are owned.

If you have nothing, you are not bound by duties or worries and are free to experience whatever comes on your path.

[mad cowboy]

I've tried t make a way through life and be as self dependant as I can be. But there are times you need help and times you can give help.
I'm not in a financial situation to make a difference If I was to give it all away. But I can give and try to. Often this giving things is a pleasure not a sacrifice, It dont have to be cash or crap how about giving a hand? I totally agree no Christian should ever pass a homeless person on the street without dropping them some cash.

Of course shouldn't we all give if we can hopefully we can give when it;s needed or even asked. There's many excuses not to give , on the surface when you see someone in a thirty or forty thousand dollar car look the other way to a woman with a cardboard sign asking for help how does that feel?? I get the oh there the secret millionares, this is the urban myth of the person who really don't need the money he's just begging because its easier than getting a job. Or the if I gave them money they'll just buy drugs or alcohol with it. Thus making there life worse. I kind of laugh at the damage that could be done with a dollars worth of drugs.

We should as caring humans help when and how we can, if your one who needs Jesus to tell you he did many times. peace B. As in feed my People

[Anarch]

I suppose in the current world we live in the greatest sacrifice is to rid ourselves of our possessions and wealth and give the proceeds to the poor, of course in doing so we would commit ourselves to a life of poverty. Below is quoted Mathew 19:21. There is the Christian religious connotation, but I think philosophically there is more to this than just the Christian view:
‘If thou wilt be perfect , go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor...come follow me’

This is a philosophy as any other. In terms of making a sacrifice it asks something that few of us would actually do, but my motive isn't that, but about individual choices, when would you make a personal sacrifice to a greater good?
Is there a sacrifice you’d be prepared to make? Why would you make it and what would drive you?

Does it still count as a sacrifice if circumstances lead to the removal of all your worldly possessions?

[Hethatreadethit]

These days the trawlers would be right behind the man, soon as he got his fish they would net the whole pond and then he would have to buy it back from the World Bank.

Funny, but true

[Hethatreadethit]

I suppose in the current world we live in the greatest sacrifice is to rid ourselves of our possessions and wealth and give the proceeds to the poor, of course in doing so we would commit ourselves to a life of poverty. Below is quoted Mathew 19:21. There is the Christian religious connotation, but I think philosophically there is more to this than just the Christian view:
‘If thou wilt be perfect , go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor...come follow me’

This is a philosophy as any other. In terms of making a sacrifice it asks something that few of us would actually do, but my motive isn't that, but about individual choices, when would you make a personal sacrifice to a greater good?
Is there a sacrifice you’d be prepared to make? Why would you make it and what would drive you?

Greetings:
Nobody goes to war without counting the cost. I think Christ said something to this point. Making a big move such as selling your material things or doing something that might cost loosing your friends, family or even your own life doesn't go without having a lot of faith and understanding to recognize between Gods' will or a misled deception. Remember what happened in Guyana and the Jones man.

[palerider]

Does it still count as a sacrifice if circumstances lead to the removal of all your worldly possessions?

Good question Anarch!!

That all depends....lol

My general point was to those who seek a closer unity with God, so if by helping someone or a cause you should lose your posessions that is an equal sacrifice. We come back to the point of humility though, and our reduction to poverty by whatever means can lead us to experiencing true humilty, whether it was intended or not. The point is that to own nothing, not even one item of sentimental value.

But even if people loose everything through circumstances, they may have sacrificed everything to better themselves [bankruptcy], or to other causes of circumstance, mental health problems and so on. We are all worthy in poverty, whether it is a chosen path or by circumstance.....don't ya think??

[palerider]

Greetings:
Nobody goes to war without counting the cost. I think Christ said something to this point. Making a big move such as selling your material things or doing something that might cost loosing your friends, family or even your own life doesn't go without having a lot of faith and understanding to recognize between Gods' will or a misled deception. Remember what happened in Guyana and the Jones man.

The point is absolute devotion of your life to God's call. I'm not asking for people to give their lives, though this is another form of sacrifice. If you felt Gods call so strongly would you sell up, give the proceeds to the poor and follow God.....no ifs no buts??

[palerider]

It's about having blind trust in "God" and allowing your life to be controlled by luck and intuition. The more worldly possessions you have, the less you are with "God".

You see, possessions are valuables and as such equal money. The next logical things to say is the more you own, the more you are owned.

If you have nothing, you are not bound by duties or worries and are free to experience whatever comes on your path.

I like that idea....any other takes??

[Hethatreadethit]

The point is absolute devotion of your life to God's call. I'm not asking for people to give their lives, though this is another form of sacrifice. If you felt Gods call so strongly would you sell up, give the proceeds to the poor and follow God.....no ifs no buts??

Greetings:

My point is this : When God calls a man through His Spirit, the man is not driven blindly and his faith is not blind. True faith comes in truth and understanding, for faith comes by hearing and hearing comes from the Word of God:

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

This sacrifice should not be done out of ignorance, but rather because the man walks in the truth and speaks and does works that are in accordance with Gods' will. This comes with understanding. This will find acceptance in His good pleasure, if it's done out of love.

Sincerely:
Hethatreadethit

[palerider]

Greetings:

My point is this : When God calls a man through His Spirit, the man is not driven blindly and his faith is not blind. True faith comes in truth and understanding, for faith comes by hearing and hearing comes from the Word of God:

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

This sacrifice should not be done out of ignorance, but rather because the man walks in the truth and speaks and does works that are in accordance with Gods' will. This comes with understanding. This will find acceptance in His good pleasure, if it's done out of love.

Sincerely:
Hethatreadethit

Yes you kinda get where I'm coming from with this, though if you have reached the point that you have experienced the call from God, would you follow that path.....?

Remember the love you mentioned is unconditional love.

[palerider]

I've tried t make a way through life and be as self dependant as I can be. But there are times you need help and times you can give help.
I'm not in a financial situation to make a difference If I was to give it all away. But I can give and try to. Often this giving things is a pleasure not a sacrifice, It dont have to be cash or crap how about giving a hand? I totally agree no Christian should ever pass a homeless person on the street without dropping them some cash.

Of course shouldn't we all give if we can hopefully we can give when it;s needed or even asked. There's many excuses not to give , on the surface when you see someone in a thirty or forty thousand dollar car look the other way to a woman with a cardboard sign asking for help how does that feel?? I get the oh there the secret millionares, this is the urban myth of the person who really don't need the money he's just begging because its easier than getting a job. Or the if I gave them money they'll just buy drugs or alcohol with it. Thus making there life worse. I kind of laugh at the damage that could be done with a dollars worth of drugs.

We should as caring humans help when and how we can, if your one who needs Jesus to tell you he did many times. peace B. As in feed my People

Sorry MC I nearly missed what you'd said........yeah great points and something that I hadn't thought of another way of looking at it.

[mad cowboy]

Originally Posted by palerider View Post
The point is absolute devotion of your life to God's call. I'm not asking for people to give their lives, though this is another form of sacrifice. If you felt Gods call so strongly would you sell up, give the proceeds to the poor and follow God.....no ifs no buts??

Could you be a little more specific Palerider? I mean are we talking a personal call and from which god?

I received I not a calling but a horoscope that says I am a holy Man. Not only that but One day I will sit with the gods. It didn't however tell me it was based on things I would do . even though I have to assume I'll actually become who I already am , Point is already I know and see everyday what its like to be wrapped up in the faith of materialism, the belief that more is better. I would recommend everyone realize the emptiness and ultimate despair it will bring you.

As I say with me I am poor already , and I know poverty is not a virtue. And is say the priest life even more virtuous giving up your personal struggles to let a church feed and support you? If one of the gods was to ask me to do this I'd ask why , but yeah it's never a good deal to make an exfriend out of a god.


I would say theres compromises sounds childish but Return to nature , thats often the piece of you that you feel missing , I.E. Selling your stuff and going Kung Fu across the land. or while there is "Brother Flowers" a great movie about joining a monostary and living the simple life . Very Beautiful and almost got me to sign up. I'd be interested to know how and why you feel the calling , and where you propose it to lead you. Peace B.

[MHz]

If you felt Gods call so strongly would you sell up, give the proceeds to the poor and follow God.....no ifs no buts??

Another post made me pause longer on this, what does the 'calling mean'. If I were to start hearing voices in my head saying to do this and do that when it affects people I am around is something that has to be discussed out loud with them. The solution you propose might be taking liberties that help your case but conflict with the actual verses, not always done intentionally. Was the solution Jesus gave the rich man to give it to the poor meaning transfer the property rights or sell what he had for the best price and then dole that money out to the poor as you meet them. A bigger thing in the verses are the follow me part, a living Jesus spoke that to a living man and he could have joined a living crowd. Today we have a book, there is no place to go but inside the book once you have one. Money not required but you do need somebody to talk out loud with about what you are both reading or commonality is lost, a process that I feel takes longer than necessary these days.

Job was not a poor man before God allowed Satan to get directly involved in his life. Fallen angels also interact the same in the last few years before the return, what Job experienced is something most of the planet will experience. After Satan was contained again Job became more wealthy than he had been before so God is not against money. The OT even gives us His banking rules. Today businesses are driven by profits for the owners. A Christian bank would charge no interest on personal loans to people under a certain income, the people are the owners, all of them. Perhaps that is where the giving should start rather than at the guy who has two coats. Rather than the rich being let off in that if the middle class become next to being poor that would be just enough to eliminate poverty and the rich no longer have to donate any of their ill gotten wealth to bring anybody up in terms of a better life. Clinging to money or material goods during the time a disaster is unfolding will cost you your life. The Bible's version compares it to the time it takes to grab a coat being the difference between life and death, in our case passing ever the galactic center might be best done on the longest night of the year if a blinding flash of 'light/energy/rays' is part of that transition. The way to test for it would be to launch a probe capable of measuring light intensity and sent in the direction that we are now traveling. Use a slow speed as a flash just 1 second long would be enough to damage our eyes, try growing food then. If it is there and it lasts 3 1/2 hours then having it happen in the night might be enough to protect you, if it was to last 3 1/2 days the the earth will have just gone through an extinction type of event.

Say you ran a business and you were a Christian, you can run it so you get a small return and anything above that goes to your employees or lowering prices for the consumers, none of that voids the 'following part', The line gets crossed when profits mean more than it being a means to raise the living conditions for many people.

[MHz]

I would say theres compromises sounds childish but Return to nature , thats often the piece of you that you feel missing , I.E. Selling your stuff and going Kung Fu across the land. or while there is "Brother Flowers" a great movie about joining a monostary and living the simple life . Very Beautiful and almost got me to sign up. I'd be interested to know how and why you feel the calling , and where you propose it to lead you. Peace B.

How about an ATV camping park that easily covers 90 sq miles (10x that actually) where the customer is also the owner in that donating time and signing a waivers gets you use for free where MasterCard gets you to the front of the line as far as reservations to the prime camp sites that are broadband connected. One such site is a set of river rapids that are louder than Niagara. If built to get the owners a 3% profit the place would have the best chance to expand to a size right for long term.

The benefit of the 'wilderness camping' is 'shelters' could 'rustic' and that is being kind for the basic tenting site. That could be a hillside being dug into and a glass front to keep the bears out. There are several companies that put out well-site trailers and even trailers for lakes that have lots of windows for enjoying the vies as much as possible.

Nothing in the above example is un-Christian and it is more in the line of sharing the wealth until you are dirt poor and in need of help yourself. The Bible certainly doesn't promote self destruction, it promotes honesty in business to the point an angel was sent to kill some that were cheating in a real estate deal. Carry that forward and companies would be still be honest.