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Thread: Who's to blame

  1. #1
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC's Avatar
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    Who's to blame

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    As I set here with my morning coffee and thumb through the topics that exists on AO, It becomes apparent that the need of a bad guy persists within topic frameworks regarding the ills of capitalism. There is no clear target for defining the word, but a dictionary could describe the basics:

    Capitalism, as a deliberate economic system, developed incrementally from the 16th century in Europe,[11] although proto-capitalist organizations existed in the ancient world, and early aspects of merchant capitalism flourished during the Late Middle Ages.[12][13][14] Capitalism became dominant in the Western world following the demise of feudalism.[14] Capitalism gradually spread throughout Europe, and in the 19th and 20th centuries, it provided the main means of industrialization throughout much of the world.[4] Today the capitalist system is the world's dominant economic model.

    It also becomes apparent with this definition that America becomes the target nation of choice in regards to blame or responsibility for a system run ramped, yet the keyboards busy with the critique usually don't reside in some third world toilet where the results of exploitation become a reality. Quite the opposite, as the majority of this finger pointing probably comes from some middle class borgiouse in designer jeans, who just happens to reside outside the evil America.

    Ironic in as much that their own life style is maintained by this same capitalism, just a smaller version of it, yet because of a location, this seems to justify their critique or not being a part of the damage, but knowing full well the riches of their particular country were built on the back of exploitation from some other country's resource.

    Even more amazing is the ability to single out one country as the reason for this human failure, ( ie."I hate America because.. when in practicality the entire western world partakes in the same spoils. Step back a mere hundred years when Europe was carving up most of Africa or south America or the far east for resources, that are vary much responsible for todays economic structure, along with the results still visible in the territories they once occupied.

    Granted its human nature to avoid responsibility, but its naive and ignorant to place the blame on one particular country, even though its trendy to label America as the cause for the worlds ills, its also incredibly hypocritical while enjoying the same life style generated by the same evils.

  2. #2
    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC View Post
    As I set here with my morning coffee and thumb through the topics that exists on AO, It becomes apparent that the need of a bad guy persists within topic frameworks regarding the ills of capitalism. There is no clear target for defining the word, but a dictionary could describe the basics:

    Capitalism, as a deliberate economic system, developed incrementally from the 16th century in Europe,[11] although proto-capitalist organizations existed in the ancient world, and early aspects of merchant capitalism flourished during the Late Middle Ages.[12][13][14] Capitalism became dominant in the Western world following the demise of feudalism.[14] Capitalism gradually spread throughout Europe, and in the 19th and 20th centuries, it provided the main means of industrialization throughout much of the world.[4] Today the capitalist system is the world's dominant economic model.

    It also becomes apparent with this definition that America becomes the target nation of choice in regards to blame or responsibility for a system run ramped, yet the keyboards busy with the critique usually don't reside in some third world toilet where the results of exploitation become a reality. Quite the opposite, as the majority of this finger pointing probably comes from some middle class borgiouse in designer jeans, who just happens to reside outside the evil America.

    Ironic in as much that their own life style is maintained by this same capitalism, just a smaller version of it, yet because of a location, this seems to justify their critique or not being a part of the damage, but knowing full well the riches of their particular country were built on the back of exploitation from some other country's resource.

    Even more amazing is the ability to single out one country as the reason for this human failure, ( ie."I hate America because.. when in practicality the entire western world partakes in the same spoils. Step back a mere hundred years when Europe was carving up most of Africa or south America or the far east for resources, that are vary much responsible for todays economic structure, along with the results still visible in the territories they once occupied.

    Granted its human nature to avoid responsibility, but its naive and ignorant to place the blame on one particular country, even though its trendy to label America as the cause for the worlds ills, its also incredibly hypocritical while enjoying the same life style generated by the same evils.
    Sorry TC I don't mean to follow you around but you do write so meaningfully.

    I was just wondering on what you wrote above, isn't that the capitaist view anyway.....self absorbed and unaware...trapped in a system not realising the damage created by many agencies....drinking a Costa coffee in the shopping mall, laiden with M&S bags and oh those new shoes that just couldn't be resisted...all placed on the credit card till next month.... and ofcourse each individual assuming no responsibility in adding to the consumer rat race? I agree that there is much finger pointing to the US and of course you are right. But how can the world change when a vast number of nations are hooked on the same thirst for consumer gain? The easy exchange of paper money and nothing necessarily gained..ahem in real terms.

    Yes it is wrong to blame only the US and historically the UK has many skeletons in the cupboard also, but I would go one step further and ask each individual globally to think about what capitalism means to them.....is it capitalism or the twisted element to human nature that we all somehow seem to shrug off?

    I agree with many sentiments on AO around this 'way of life'.....we have become lost.....I wonder if over the next century we might see a drift away from the capitalist model...the ony model that we know ? LOl I wonder if in 50 years I'll be exchanging potatoes for carrots.......if I'm still alive by then.
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

  3. #3
    i rule, u serve dinner tahn1000's Avatar
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    the blame game... what has the current global economic situation got to do with capitalism?

    absolutely NOTHING. who's to blame for capitalism? capitalism is merely an economic concept. and even at the height of communism those countries did not exclusively avoid the much vaunted traits of capitalism. entrepreneurism and international trade were alive and thriving even though the "west" liked to think differently.

    who is to blame? you can't blame capitalism for the current economic situation. but you direct the pointy end of the stick squarely and confidently at successive administations in america for their complete lack of economic transparency and complete inability not only to balance their own books but see any need to repay international debt.

    oh, i think we CAN blame america (more specifically whoever has been in government for at least the last 60years) for the state of their country and their over-inflated importance to the rest of the world. however the fact is that the countries that survive best are those with trade value - that is EXPORT - what other countries want for their own manufacturing processes and basic economy, and no "developed" country, save australia, exports the raw materials of industry. the fat cats of the "western world" are dependent on the smaller countries remaining smaller and dependent on them to buy their goods at pennies on the dollar.
    "your god is not mine (john 8:37-40)"
    knowledge is wasted on the ignorant

  4. #4
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC's Avatar
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    Quite alright PR, you can follow me around anytime...lol I like your responses as well!

    You're correct that we as individuals should take a good look at our own life styles, as its not any given nations system that forces anyone to be a consumer, and we forget that its human nature to want more.

    and you're right, this luxury we have of free market choice is only possible with over abundance. The day is coming when consumerism is relegated to trading a potato for an onion.

  5. #5
    Cart-mod 2.0 Global Moderator Cartesiantheater's Avatar
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    It isn't capitalism people complain about. At least that's not what they mean when they use the word as the scapegoat.

    But instead, consider the salary discrepancy between CEOs and average employees, and how that differential has CHANGED in the last 30 years. THAT sort of thing is what they're complaining about, and it isn't merely "Capitalism." Not by a long shot.
    "I was put on trial twice near Y2K for acting like Jesus and claiming to be the Messiah. Its not everyday that a man parks a Chariot of Fire in front of a tomb and stands against the US government with a bow and razor tipped arrows over his shoulder. I wore a suit of armor and was protected by an invisible bubble and my sharp tongue was more than the judicial system could handle."Jake
    "The toilet is more than a throne. It is a sacred chamber."-Anton LaVey, High Priest of Satanism

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    Fighting for Life Contributor olddragon's Avatar
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    Very good TC, sorry I'm out of Rep.

    Most people who complain, are taking full advantage of capitalism and the wealth created.

  7. #7
    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater View Post
    It isn't capitalism people complain about. At least that's not what they mean when they use the word as the scapegoat.

    But instead, consider the salary discrepancy between CEOs and average employees, and how that differential has CHANGED in the last 30 years. THAT sort of thing is what they're complaining about, and it isn't merely "Capitalism." Not by a long shot.
    Yes CT I quite agree with that statement/observation. The CEO's in my own organisation earn around 150K I earn a fraction of that. I agree on that score it isn't just capitalism either. But the model/system we run with is based on the capitalist model. It seems to me if a person can crack getting into a top position whatever they do no matter how much they earn they're seen as 'worth it'......at this point I can only laugh

    I wonder though if you were to research what capitalism means to the average person on the street they wouldn't be able to tell you. Which begs another question ...is there any awareness in general about how our financial system works? Heres another take from a different angle, as the recession bites and small business's close a new stronger monopoly grows in the food market. I agree entirely with the view you put forward CT, but I also think to view it entirely each individual has to think for themselves...take a step outside of it and look in I'm sure a very different picture will emerge.

    I am not anti-capitalist, but like any system it can be manipulated.
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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