The origins of AIDS - Please keep it civil or don't post.

[Waymarker]

Originally Posted by Waymarker-As a Christian, I'm completely free from Establishment control .
Lillith reply-An Oxymoron. Yes, WW, go look the word up in a dictionary.

Ha ha, logic it out darling:- The Establishment (or Illuminati or whatever you want to call them) HATE Christianity because Christianity is all about not letting yourself be mind-controlled.
That's why they killed Jesus to shut him up, and have been hassling Christians ever since.
Seeing as this is the Religion section, these verses belong here, learn-

"Jesus saved you from the empty way of life handed you by your forefathers" (1 Pet 1:18 )
"Don't conform to the pattern of this world" (Rom 12:2)
"You were bought at a price, don't serve men" (1 Cor 7:23)
"A friend of the world is the enemy of God" (James 4:4)
"You died with Christ from this world, so don't keep submitting to its rules" (Col 2:20)
"You were dead when you followed the ways of the world" (Eph 2:1/2)

It's not rocket science-
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms" (Eph 6:12).

I mean, look at me swaggering in this vid, do I look controlled by anybody? Ha ha..:)

+ YouTube Video

[Fut004]

Christianity is all about not letting yourself be mind-controlled.

Ummm... Don't Christians think that everything happens exactly according to God's plan? If that's not the absolute epitome of mind control, I don't know what is.

[Waymarker]

Ummm... Don't Christians think that everything happens exactly according to God's plan? If that's not the absolute epitome of mind control, I don't know what is.

Some 'Fatalist-cultists' think that, but there's nothing concrete in the Bible to back them up.
After all, Jesus went around telling people "You better shape up", he didn't go around saying "Relax and just go with the flow, everything is God's plan so whatever happens there's nothing you can do to change it".

As i've said before, I personally know a mid-aged 'christian' evangelist Fatalist whose life is a total disaster because he won't lift a finger to get his life on track, preferring instead to put his life entirely in God's hands on a "whatever will be, will be" basis.
As a result, his life is an utter disaster, he's been up court twice for not paying his council tax, he's had 2 failed marriages, his phone, electricity and gas keep getting cut off for not paying the bills etc.
I've tried to help him pull himself together and get organised and have even fired this verse at him- "For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of selfdiscipline" (2 Tim 1:7)

but it's had no effect whatsoever and he's just as sloppy as ever, so i no longer answer his occasional phone calls and letters.

[Nu Kua]

So God really has no control over events on earth? God is not infallible? Is that what you are saying?
Are you suggesting Jesus did not teach obedience and subservience to his Father?

[Waymarker]

So God really has no control over events on earth? God is not infallible? Is that what you are saying?
Are you suggesting Jesus did not teach obedience and subservience to his Father?

A football manager (God) briefs the team on how to play, then lets them get on with the game.
Same with us, he sent Jesus to brief us, and now it's our free choice about whether to play by his rules or make up our own as we go along..:)

My Fatalist acquaintance prefers to play 'blind' because he ignores that verse about getting self-discipline into our lives, and as a result his life is a mess.

PS- It's like an Army assault course, the drill instructor (Jesus) tells us how best to get over the obstacles then lets us choose whether to follow his advice or ignore him and try to fumble through as best we can-
"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)

[Fut004]

A football manager (God) briefs the team on how to play, then lets them get on with the game.
Same with us, he sent Jesus to brief us, and now it's our free choice about whether to play by his rules or make up our own as we go along..:)

A football coach doesn't condemn his players to an eternity of torture if they lose though. That's where you're idea falls apart. Sure your God gives you this free choice, but he punishes you so unbelievably harshly if you don't pick the right choice - that, in my honest opinion, isn't a choice at all.

[GamerGal]

Free Will, Use it EXACTLY AS I SAY! Oh wait, that isn't free will. That is slavery.

[Waymarker]

A football coach doesn't condemn his players to an eternity of torture if they lose though. That's where you're idea falls apart. Sure your God gives you this free choice, but he punishes you so unbelievably harshly if you don't pick the right choice - that, in my honest opinion, isn't a choice at all.

Theives, murderers, rapists, peedos, tyrants, corrupt bankers and politicians etc, surely they deserve to be slung into hell?
Where else is there for them to go?
As for atheists and nonchristians in general, maybe God considers their 'crime' of rejecting Jesus to be just as bad as any other crime, and that they deserve to be slung in there too?
Where else can they go?
Anyway, who in their right mind would want to reject Jesus?

[Bob]

I have the same information from a separate source AB :http://www.avert.org/aids-history-america.htm

This would indicate to me that the first person to bring AIDS over to the US was gay.

As this disease is spread primarily by sexual intercourse then it's not surprising it took hold in the gay community first. If the first person had been heterosexual, the gay community would probably have been the last to suffer from it.

If you look at the figures it was a very low number of gays that had the disease before it jumped to the heterosexual disease. Indicating that it was not a purely gay disease, simply that the route of infection delayed it's spread to the heterosexual community.

ETA. As for your OP, and trying to shut a Troll up, good luck with that LOL

Ah...if only life could be as simple as the labels we place on our fellow man. Terms like hetero and homo are media driven cliche's and they don't always fit so neatly into reality. For example; hetero males get raped by hetero males in prisons, frequently. So aids can be spread by heteros to heteros and gays have nothing to do with it. Being Gay is a matter of attraction and arousal, nothing more, nothing less. It is not necessarily a case of a boy and his weener. For those of you Bible humpers out there, God created everything, so...God created gays, if you got a problem with it, go talk to him, it's his problem. Homosexuality exists in all mammalian species. Dogs are persistant butt sniffers and ball lickers, but do we see the crusade against dogs, no... they are man's best friend. So, please try to lighten up on the gays. If you're not gay, you got nothing to worry about and if you are it's none of my or anybody else's business.

[Waymarker]

Free Will, Use it EXACTLY AS I SAY! Oh wait, that isn't free will. That is slavery.

As a PC wargame champion (PoorOldSpike), i've contributed countless tactical articles to wargame websites over the years and people gladly and freely choose to read them to help improve their game, but nobody has to read them.
Jesus too, tells us how to improve our game, you don't have to listen to him if you don't want..:)

[Beatnik Bob]

OMG what an amazing thread... And in religion no less!!

First off HIV/AIDS.. Wow guys! WAY TO BLAME THE FUCKING VICTIMS! 'oh it was the gays! blah blah' 'if it originated in straight people the gays would be last to have it'..


Jesus christ you all are a novel bunch...

I was too young in the early 80's to remember when this pandemic exploded, but hadn't AT LEAST 10,000 people died before Saint Raygun even mentioned the condition?

Maybe if it wasn't 'teh gays' winding up dead our amazing 40th president could have moved some money to the CDC to stop something that, at the time, alarmed physicians.

I guess its a shame that the disease went from monkey to Bruce to Steve instead of monkey to Betty to David, cause im sure there would have been a response if it was pretty blond straight people ending up dead in ICU's.


And to all the people reading this who think HIV is someones just rewards for being too sexual, F U C K Y O U.

This is a valid point, and I agree and support its premise.

Even if you were to definitively prove that everyone with HIV/AIDS was gay and only people with HIV/AIDS were gay, that is still just the U.S.

There are other places where your logic does not and never did apply... Like Europe, or it's African origin.
Proving that it was statistically highest among gays in the U.S. does not prove from an empirical standpoint that it is a "gay disease."

Because yes, women had it in Africa before any American gays had it.
What you are trying to do is make a broad generalization based on a case-study--which is to say a U.S. case-study.


Vuall and ruiner pointed out something very fundamental (in terms of what happened in the U.S.):

"if it originated in straight people the gays would be last to have it"


Which is true for any closed population demographic. Whether you are referencing genetic disease or viruses.

[Vuall]

Further to my last post, yes I believe it started with one person bringing it over to the US. As to how it spread, I wasn't intimating this guy was so promiscuous as to spread it by himself. If he became a blood donor, there is a possibility it was spread this way, If he was a drug user, he may have spread it round the gay community by sharing needles. I'm not saying it wasn't something to do with the immunisation program. But something as simple as sharing needles with say 1/2 a dozen people at a party then these 1/2 dozen sharing needles individually with their friends etc seems a much simpler scenario.

[Waymarker]

..So, please try to lighten up on the gays..

I'm not anti-gay as such, i just say it how it is. I've already mentioned i applied for a voluntary job at a local charity shop even though i knew the manager was an effemninate gay, but i didn't care, he was a nice friendly chap..:)
(For the record he said "sorry, i've got all the vols i need right now")

But like I said elsewhere, if militant loudmouth gays go looking for trouble, i'll give it 'em..:)
Nobody cares what they get up to in private because that's just a matter between them and God, but when they start doing Gay Pride marches and stuff, and setting up christian 'stings' and pushing for little schoolkids to be taught that 'gay is normal', they're asking for trouble..

Sure, they might say "blame God, he made us like this", but that's what thieves, murderers rapos and peedos could say too.
As Jesus said to ALL sinners- "Cut it out and change", he never said "carry on, that's how you were made".

My own take on it is that there's a richter scale of homosexuality ranging from the warm, loving longterm type between two men who genuinely care for each other, up to the filthy depraved sickening one night stand type.
Whether God classes them all as equally bad we just don't know.
Same as an occasional shoplifter and a hardened career criminal, they're both theives but whether God thinks they're both equally as bad, we just don't know.

[Nu Kua]

These threads are not "gay pride marches". These threads consist of adults attempting to have an adult conversation about HIV/AIDS, and human sexuality. hence you should save your "trouble" for the next Gay Pride March local to you, or maybe a days travel, but I have to wonder if you have the balls enough to confront them irl.

"My own take on it is that there's a richter scale of HUMAN SEXUALITY ranging from the warm, loving type between two people who genuinely care for each other, up to the filthy depraved sickening type."

I corrected that for you.

[Waymarker]

These threads are not "gay pride marches". These threads consist of adults attempting to have an adult conversation about HIV/AIDS, and human sexuality..

This is the Religion subforum darling so it serves you all right for coming in here, let alone starting a thread with my name in it!
You should have known you'd get pwned by me..:)

As for 'Human Sexuality', I know and love many local women as friends, and haven't the slightest wish to bed them, they know it and respect me for it.
Heck, like i said elsewhere, prostitute Sue once came knocking my door in tears gone midnight looking for comfort after a client beat her up, I said "Come on in darling, i'll put the kettle on", and ended up giving her my bed for the night. "You can get in with me if you like" she shyly mumbled, but i made some excuse to take the couch..

The moral is men can love each other too without having to hop into bed.
The gospels tell of a chap who used to lean against Jesus in absolute hero-worship (below), we don't know who he was, but he was overwhelmed by the deep pure platonic love shown to him by Jesus-

[Nu Kua]

Nobody on this board has ever been pwn'd by you. Nobody. Not one soul, ever. Never, ever. Never, never, never, never ever. Not once, nada. Zero.

And it doesn't matter that it is in one forum or the next, this thread, nor most of them along the same subject matter, isn't a forum gay pride march. Nobody came in here to start a thread about how awesome it is to be gay and that every one should try it- certainly not ABeginner!

But enough of this pandering to your need for personal attention, I'll not further play into your attempts to derail yet another thread so you can have something to masturbate to later.

(Apologies to ABeginner.)

[Waymarker]

But enough of this pandering to your need for personal attention, I'll not further play into your attempts to derail yet another thread so you can have something to masturbate to later.

Honeybun, the plain fact that you haven't got me on ignore means you find me unearthly magnetic and hang on my every word like a fridge magnet..:)

Which one of these are you?-

[Fut004]

As a PC wargame champion (PoorOldSpike), i've contributed countless tactical articles to wargame websites over the years and people gladly and freely choose to read them to help improve their game, but nobody has to read them.
Jesus too, tells us how to improve our game, you don't have to listen to him if you don't want..:)

Do you delete the accounts of the people who don't read your articles? (It's the most realistic thing I could think of to condemning a person to an eternity of torture).

No?
Didn't think so. So your comparison sucks.

[Waymarker]

Do you delete the accounts of the people who don't read your articles? (It's the most realistic thing I could think of to condemning a person to an eternity of torture).
No?
Didn't think so. So your comparison sucks.

A small minority of sour-minded wargamers are openly hostile to me and don't learn from my tactical articles, but why should i care, I'm a multiple ladder champ and they're not..:)
I don't delete them because their terrible destiny is to languish forever in the dark lower recesses of the ladders, while the vast majority who do read my stuff rocket up the rankings and I sit back smiling, thinking "That's my boys! You're soldiers now!"..:)

PS- shouldn't this thread be moved to the Science section where you can all try to pin the AIDS rap on green monkeys or aliens or whatever to your hearts content?
By posting it here in the Religion section you're just asking to be blitzed off your feet by bible verses..:)

[Vuall]

Well all I can say about Waymarkers contribution (or lack of) to this discussion is, Waymarker, it must suck to be you.

[Waymarker]

Well all I can say about Waymarkers contribution (or lack of) to this discussion is, Waymarker, it must suck to be you.

You once said you live near the Fylingdales and Menwith Hill top-secret Establishment-owned radar stations mate, so i can only assume the 'Dark Powers' are beaming mind-control frequencies at you to make you hate christianity and remain under their control..:)
This is not a game!
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms" (Eph 6:12).

[Lillith]

These threads are not "gay pride marches". These threads consist of adults attempting to have an adult conversation about HIV/AIDS, and human sexuality. hence you should save your "trouble" for the next Gay Pride March local to you, or maybe a days travel, but I have to wonder if you have the balls enough to confront them irl.

"My own take on it is that there's a richter scale of HUMAN SEXUALITY ranging from the warm, loving type between two people who genuinely care for each other, up to the filthy depraved sickening type."

I corrected that for you.

Its akin to every thread he posts too - par for the course he manages to derail them with endless tales of his personal experiences, how wonderful, smart or handsome he is, or by slinging insults at other people who ARE TRYING to have a thread STAY ON TOPIC.


He TROLLS every single thread with mostly useless non relevant garbage about himself and this thread is a perfect example.

It went from a potential discussion about HIV/AID to his PERSONAL gay bashing opinions and HIS experience or lack thereof with prostitutes. and he uses Christianity as his carte blanc coverup.

SO Asshole, waymaker - dont bother coming back at me with your lame BS about how much I or the other women on this thread admire you. YOU ARE AN OBNOXIOUS JERK OFF SELF SEEKING ATTENTION WHORE -

[Zer0th]

How do I dissolve my 'English' accreditation?

Will the Celts take me?

[Waymarker]

..SO Asshole, waymaker - YOU ARE AN OBNOXIOUS JERK OFF SELF SEEKING ATTENTION WHORE..

Still playing hard to get baby?
Mebbe you're just jealous because Nu Klux, Kahn and Lucille have been making a play for me?..;)

[calliope]

The tragic thing is that traditional christianity has taken the idea of "free will" and butchered it beyond recognition.

They've taken a fabricated idea of a physical place of torture where you'll go if you don't allow them to control your life, your choices and thoughts exactly according to their dictates.

That's "mind control" and it's the antithesis of the true esoteric concept of "Free will" and the reason it is so important to the development of souls.

“The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.”
~John Milton, Paradise Lost