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Thread: The origins of AIDS - Please keep it civil or don't post.

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    The origins of AIDS - Please keep it civil or don't post.

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    Shalom Everyone, I was in the process of posting this when Nu Kua closed her thread. I would like to pick it back up with Beatnik Bob, as he has expressed some ideas that really don't line up with the facts. And please Waymarker, keep it civil...there are some of us who would like to discuss the truth about the origin of AIDS, instead of just trying to insult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Really? This is a thread on homosexuality and AIDS?

    Hopefully you realize that AIDS originated in Green Monkeys... And that the jump is understood to have most likely occurred from tribes eating raw or under-cooked monkey....

    So that has, what to do with homosexuality?
    Shalom Beatnik Bob, I was hoping to relay some info to you about the origins of AIDS. I have quoted several sentences from the article I'm also linking, and it makes a very good point about the "monkey jumping viruses." They say it has been theorized that HIV (the human immunodeficiency virus), AND the herpes-8 virus (the virus that causes Kaposi’s Sarcoma, widely known as the “gay cancer” of AIDS), both jumped species--from monkey/chimpanzee to human. Their point is why hasn't there been a satisfactory explanation as to how it could have been possible for both of these monkey jumping viruses to have ended up in the blood of those gay men who received the Hepititis B (HB) vaccine in the late 70's. What are the odd's of that? Here is their quote and I had to modify it just a little to make it readable:

    "The widely accepted theory is that HIV/AIDS originated in a monkey or chimpanzee virus that “jumped species” in Africa.

    However, it is clear that the first AIDS cases were recorded in gay men in Manhattan in 1979, a few years before the epidemic was first noticed in Africa in 1982. It is now claimed that the human herpes-8 virus (also called the KS virus), discovered in 1994, also originated when a primate herpes virus jumped species in Africa. Why hasn't the fact that two African species-jumping viruses which ended up exclusively in gay men in Manhattan, beginning in the late 1970s, ever been satisfactorily explained?
    ************************************************** *****
    After the introduction of HIV and the KS virus into the U.S. gay male population in the late 1970s, the incidence of KS skyrocketed.

    A 1989 report by Biggar found no cases of KS in young men in New York City during the years 1973-1976. But by 1985 the incidence of KS in “never-married men” in Manhattan had increased 1850 times. In San Francisco the rate of KS increased over 2000 times!

    KS is now 20,000 times more common in AIDS patients than in the general population."

    So when you look at the theory of HIV jumping from monkeys to man, and you include that the KS virus also jumped from monkeys to man, isn't it an almost astronomical coincidence that both of these monkey jumping viruses were found in the blood of those NYC gay men who had been given the Hepititis B (HB) vaccine? Just something to think about!!

    Here's the link: http://notaids.com/en/node/84

    ABeginner
    Last edited by Fut004; Sep 10th, 2011 at 1:54 PM. Reason: Corrected a mistake.

  2. #2
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    NK's thread wasn't even supposed to even be about HIV. People derailed it.


    That said, your article is outdated or flawed.

    Here is newer research.


    Researchers Find HIV Has Existed Among Human Populations for 100 Years

    HIV has existed among human populations for about 100 years, decades earlier than previously believed, according to a study published Wednesday in the journal Nature, the Los Angeles Times reports (Engel, Los Angeles Times, 10/2). HIV/AIDS was not recognized formally until 1981, and scientists previously estimated its origin at around 1930. However, the new study, led by Michael Worobey of the University of Arizona, found the origin of HIV to be between 1884 and 1924, with a more focused estimate at 1908. Worobey said that the new result "is not a monumental shift, but it means the virus was circulating under our radar even longer than we knew" (Ritter, AP/Google.com, 10/1).

    The research is based on lymph node tissue from an HIV-positive woman who died in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in 1960, then the Belgian Congo. The tissue specimen was one of more than 800 preserved in ice-cube-size blocks of paraffin at the University of Kinshasa. The researchers compared that sample with modern HIV strains to determine its mutation rate. They then matched that rate with the oldest sample of the virus -- from a 1959 blood sample taken from a man who also lived in the Belgian Congo -- and traced their common ancestor to between 1884 and 1924, which represents the first appearance of the virus in humans before it mutated (Los Angeles Times, 10/2). "Those old sequences helped calibrate the molecular clock, which is essentially the rate at which mutations accumulate in HIV," Worobey said, adding, "Once you have that rate, you can work backward and make a guess of when the ancestor of the whole pandemic strain of the AIDS virus originated. It is that ancestor we are dating to 1908 plus or minus about 20 years" (Steenhuysen, Reuters Africa, 10/2).
    So about 1908.

    So what are you people saying? It appeared out of nowhere due to sex? Viruses have origins--And AIDS (even though it was localized in the Congo) was around during approximately 1908. Perhaps earlier, this is just what we know from blood samples.

    How could something stay isolated in Africa? Well, many people often fail to grasp just how large Africa is. You could fit both Europe and the mainland U.S. into Africa, and still have room left over. And parts of Congo are still, to this day, very isolated.
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

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    LOOSE CANNON Contributor Waymarker's Avatar
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    ABeginner quote-Waymarker please keep it civil or don't post.
    ------------------------------------------------------

    You can go kissing gay ass but count me out mate..:)
    Gays go around causing trouble so now i'm giving them payback!
    For examp earlier this year a gay male couple tried to book into a small christian-run guesthouse but were turned away and won compensation from the courts for 'discrimination'.
    Obviously they deliberately set up the owners.
    So if militant loudmouthed gays want trouble, i'll give it to 'em..:)

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    Fuq Haters Contributor Nu Kua's Avatar
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    It wasn't that it went into an HIV conversation, I even contributed to that and it's an interesting conversation. Then it continued as an anti-gay rant, then it turned lewd and nasty, and I just am tired of it.

    In fact, I'll re-share my contribution to that discussion.


    I hope this is the version with the corrected links.

    I found this article trying to verify another article's claims that in Africa, everywhere AIDS "popped up", they had just been inoculating people against the smallpox virus... not polio... the author noted that the Ford fellow was always in those places just before or when the outbreaks occurred.
    Also, the same thing, with AIDS victims in NY and Los Angeles, and that there was a "clinical trial" of some sort where men would come in to get vaccinated, those who said they were homosexual got one serum, those who were heterosexual, another...
    and it wasn't too long before AIDS symptoms began to manifest in those areas. Get that? AIDS in the States began in LA and NY, and spread from there.
    It is entirely feasible that the people at the level of passing out shots had no idea they were delivering tainted goods. (if indeed tainted goods were the case)

    London Times, original May of 1987
    Smallpox Vaccine Triggered AIDS Virus

    ...But an adviser to WHO who disclosed the problem, told The Times: 'I thought it was just a coincidence until we studied the latest findings about the reactions which can be caused by Vaccinia. Now I believe the smallpox vaccine theory is the explanation to the explosion of Aids.' 'In obliterating one disease, another was transformed.'

    Further evidence comes from the Walter Reed Army Medical Centre in Washington. While smallpox vaccine is no longer kept for public health purposes, new recruits to the American armed services are immunized as a precaution against possible biological warfare. Routine vaccination of a 19-year-old recruit was the trigger for stimulation of dormant HIV virus into Aids. ...

    ...Although no detailed figures are available, WHO information indicated that the Aids league table of Central Africa matches the concentration of vaccinations.
    The greatest spread of HIV infection coincides with the most intense immunization programmes , with the number of people immunized being as follows: Zaire 36,878,000; Zambia 19,060,000; Tanzania 14,972,000; Uganda 11,616,000; Malawai 8,118,000; Rwanda 3,382,000 and Burundi 3,274,000.

    Brazil, the only South American country covered in the eradication campaign, has the highest incidence of Aids in that region. About 14,000 Haitians, on United Nations secondment to Central Africa, were covered in the campaign. They began to return home at a time when Haiti had become a popular playground for San Francisco homosexuals...
    But surely, nobody would ever conceive of any devious purposes... ?

    BBC News: 1998

    A South African scientist has told the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that the apartheid government considered trying to develop a bacteria which would kill only blacks.

    The former head of a military research laboratory, Daan Goosen, told the commission that the project had the backing of South Africa's then Surgeon General, who described it as "the most important project in the country."

    Although the substance was never developed, Mr Goosen said that an unknown European scientist claimed to have developed a strain of bacteria in the early 1980s "capable of killing pigmented people".

    "It could have been used as a negotiation back-up," Mr Goosen told the Commission. "A thing like this could have been used to maintain peace. It was a case of being the strongest."

    Plans to travel to Europe for a meeting were abandoned because of fears that it could be a trap, but the witness said South African scientists continued their own work on the project, and also looked into methods of making blacks selectively infertile...
    Sunday London Times, November of the same year:

    ...Dr Daan Goosen, head of a South African chemical and biological warfare plant, said his team was ordered in the 1980s to develop a "pigmentation weapon" to target only black people. He said the team discussed spreading a disease in beer, maize or even vaccinations but never managed to develop one.

    However, a confidential Pentagon report warned last year that biological agents could be genetically engineered to produce new lethal weapons. William Cohen, the American defence secretary, revealed that he had received reports of countries working to create "certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic-specific". A senior western intelligence source confirmed last week that Israel was one of the countries Cohen had in mind.

    The "ethno-bomb" claims have been given further credence in Foreign Report, a Jane's publication that closely monitors security and defence matters. It reports unnamed South African sources as saying Israeli scientists have used some of the South African research in trying to develop an "ethnic bullet" against Arabs...

    from the book "Plague Wars: The Terrifying Reality of Biological Warfare" by Tom Mangold and Jeff Goldberg; Copyright 1999

    ...“Gert lifts another veil. ‘There was some HIV tampering,’ he says. Mean#ing? ‘I mean all you have to do is get one covert guy, he’s HIV positive, he’s of the area. You get him to infiltrate the whole town and screw the whole lot . . . get him out and shoot him.’ Was that really done? ‘If I tell you, it was obviously done. Look, I was a wild guy. At one stage, I worked with the police, I worked with national intellience, I worked with military intelligence, I worked with Seventh Med, I worked with everybody. I was never identified, because only a very few people knew where I was positioned.’ Was Basson your boss? ‘No, it was higher up, both military and political...
    Learn more about S. African Chemical and Biological Warfare program (trial notes)

    Learn more (and more) about Dr. Basson

    Learn more about Larry Ford

    Learn more about Dr. Goosen

    and more re Goosen- interview with PBS

    Learn more about biological weapons research in Africa

    and a WIKI re Project Coast

    (Speaking of Israel earlier, WIRED.com, among others, also reported on that in 1998.)

    Learn more about how PTB love the idea

    page 72 of the PDF, PNAC- Rebuilding America's Defenses:

    ...And advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool...
    It has been covered up for the most part in the MSM, but remember H. Clinton signed off to have DNA collected (along with other biometric and personal info) solely on African officials working at the UN.

    And for those who breathed a sigh of relief when the Bushies left office and you thought all that PNAC stuff was forgotten, no...

    PNAC has evolved to CNAS, Center for a New American Security
    Some ties
    Last edited by Nu Kua; Sep 7th, 2011 at 8:53 PM.
    "The Alice-in-Wonderland nature of this pronouncement is not lost on me..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    NK's thread wasn't even supposed to even be about HIV. People derailed it.


    That said, your article is outdated or flawed.

    Here is newer research.




    So about 1908.

    So what are you people saying? It appeared out of nowhere due to sex? Viruses have origins--And AIDS (even though it was localized in the Congo) was around during approximately 1908. Perhaps earlier, this is just what we know from blood samples.

    How could something stay isolated in Africa? Well, many people often fail to grasp just how large Africa is. You could fit both Europe and the mainland U.S. into Africa, and still have room left over. And parts of Congo are still, to this day, very isolated.
    Shalom Beatnik Bob, this article really doesn't change the fact that the explosion of AIDS in the late 70's to early 80's was triggered by something. There were two regions in the world where this explosion took place...NYC and Central Africa. Both of those places had the Hepititis B (HB) vaccine administered to people susceptible to Heptitis B (NYC gay men, and villages in central Africa with poor sanitation and some female prostitutes). In the USA it was considered a "gay" disease, and in Africa it was considered a straight or heterosexual disease. But the fact remains, the Hepititis B vaccine that was used on both the gays and straights, was a vaccine which was developed IN Chimpanzee's. And the first reported cases of KS was in Vienna in 1872, so I don't find it strange at all for HIV to be estimated to have been around in 1908...that's not the point. The point is that a mass injection of HIV/KS was given to the blacks in Africa and the gays in NYC, and that "triggered" the AIDS epidemic.

    It wasn't a "species jumping virus," it basically was an accidental spread of the HIV through the Heptitis B vaccine. ABeginner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post
    ABeginner quote-Waymarker please keep it civil or don't post.
    ------------------------------------------------------

    You can go kissing gay ass but count me out mate..:)
    Gays go around causing trouble so now i'm giving them payback!
    For examp earlier this year a gay male couple tried to book into a small christian-run guesthouse but were turned away and won compensation from the courts for 'discrimination'.
    Obviously they deliberately set up the owners.
    So if militant loudmouthed gays want trouble, i'll give it to 'em..:)
    Shalom Waymarker, I realized I made a mistake by putting your name up on the title thread and tried to change it, but it wouldn't take. So sorry for not thinking it through better...I shouldn't have put your name on the thread.

    That being said, what ever happened to being "wise as a serpent, and as innocent as a dove?" Do you really think I'm kissing someone's rear end? You haven't heard everything I plan on presenting here, so be patient, and also try to be courteous to those who cause you trouble. ABeginner

  7. #7
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABeginner View Post
    Shalom Beatnik Bob, this article really doesn't change the fact that the explosion of AIDS in the late 70's to early 80's was triggered by something.
    If you had actually read the article I linked, you would have read how the explosion in the 70's was due to wider urbanization. And then it made it's way to the Europe the the U.S. (which is especially urbanized).
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

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    Survivalist! Lillith's Avatar
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    From another thread that was closed and moved to Off Topic section;

    Originally Posted by ABeginner
    Shalom Waymarker, do you really think that is the proper way to express yourself?

    Originally posted by Waymarker;

    You're a Jew and you're telling me how to behave?

    Ha ha you're a funny guy..:)
    Again AB your generousity as expressed in your last post is commendable. Even after asking for a paticular individual to keep it civil.

    Not so with me re the generosity dept.

    Is it any wonder that the know it all Waywasted Troll Jerk you were trying to kindly converse with is someone who had to do his Troll Swagger Dance (TSD) routine in the religious section for a possible female companion or date?

    Be warned; Expect him to troll your thread just like he does almost every other thread - with nincompoop retarded comments that would not challenge even the most unfortunate low IQ simpleton.


    But Good luck, could prove to be an interesting thread - and I'll be rooting for ya AB to get to at least 25 posts without giving up in disgust and asking it to be closed due to the WW troll interference.
    Galadriel: "I amar prestar aen. Han mathon ne nen. Han mathon ne chae. A han noston ne 'wilith. "Translation: "The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nu Kua View Post
    It wasn't that it went into an HIV conversation, I even contributed to that and it's an interesting conversation. Then it continued as an anti-gay rant, then it turned lewd and nasty, and I just am tired of it.

    In fact, I'll re-share my contribution to that discussion.


    I hope this is the version with the corrected links.

    I found this article trying to verify another article's claims that in Africa, everywhere AIDS "popped up", they had just been inoculating people against the smallpox virus... not polio... the author noted that the Ford fellow was always in those places just before or when the outbreaks occurred.
    Also, the same thing, with AIDS victims in NY and Los Angeles, and that there was a "clinical trial" of some sort where men would come in to get vaccinated, those who said they were homosexual got one serum, those who were heterosexual, another...
    and it wasn't too long before AIDS symptoms began to manifest in those areas. Get that? AIDS in the States began in LA and NY, and spread from there.
    It is entirely feasible that the people at the level of passing out shots had no idea they were delivering tainted goods. (if indeed tainted goods were the case)
    Shalom Nu Kua, the consensus has changed about smallpox causing AIDS. Here is an exerpt:


    In 1987 there was some consideration given to the possibility that the "Aids epidemic may have been triggered by the mass vaccination campaign which eradicated smallpox". An article[4] in the Times suggested this, quoting an unnamed "adviser to WHO" with "I believe the smallpox vaccine theory is the explanation to the explosion of Aids". It is now thought that the smallpox vaccine causes serious complications for people who already have impaired immune systems, and the Times article described the case of a military recruit with "dormant HIV" who died within months of receiving it. But no citation was provided regarding people who did not previously have HIV. (HIV is now considered to be a contraindication for the smallpox vaccine - both for an infected person and their sexual partners and household members.[5][6]) Some conspiracy theorists propose an expanded hypothesis in which the smallpox vaccine was deliberately 'laced' with HIV.[7] In contrast, a research article was published in 2010 suggesting that it might have been the actual eradication of smallpox and the subsequent ending of the mass vaccination campaign that contributed to the sudden emergence of HIV, due to the possibility that immunization against smallpox "might play a role in providing an individual with some degree of protection to subsequent HIV infection and/or disease progression".[8][9] Regardless of the effects of the smallpox vaccine itself, its use in practice in Africa is one of the categories of un-sterile injection that may have contributed to the spread and mutation of the immunodeficiency viruses.[10]

    That being said, I still am a firm believer that the Hepititis B (HB) vaccine is what "triggered" the AIDS epidemic. ABeginner

  10. #10
    Leader of the bomb shelter Contributor FinalFour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillith View Post
    From another thread that was closed and moved to Off Topic section;



    Again AB your generousity as expressed in your last post is commendable. Even after asking for a paticular individual to keep it civil.

    Not so with me re the generosity dept.

    Is it any wonder that the know it all Waywasted Troll Jerk you were trying to kindly converse with is someone who had to do his Troll Swagger Dance (TSD) routine in the religious section for a possible female companion or date?

    Be warned; Expect him to troll your thread just like he does almost every other thread - with nincompoop retarded comments that would not challenge even the most unfortunate low IQ simpleton.


    But Good luck, could prove to be an interesting thread - and I'll be rooting for ya AB to get to at least 25 posts without giving up in disgust and asking it to be closed due to the WW troll interference.


    Waymaker should be allowed to say how he feels. After all, AO will forever "remain the brilliant and rare place that it is, in allowing the flourishing of original ideas and thought, with the high value that it places on freedom of expression. Even when that exceeds our personal comfort levels."

    So if he wants to bash gays, the way others bash religion, for example-- well--- you wouldn't want to limit his freedom of expression, would you? I mean- he doesn't use naughty words or anything.

    Decide what you want this place to be. Then live with it.

    You too BB... you're not gay, are you? Not that there's anything wrong with that-- you just seem a little defensive lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    If you had actually read the article I linked, you would have read how the explosion in the 70's was due to wider urbanization. And then it made it's way to the Europe the the U.S. (which is especially urbanized).
    Shalom Beatnik Bob, I did go back to your link and read about the "urbanization." That's interesting about how Africa became urbanized and then HIV spread through Europe and then into the U.S. I think maybe Tahn is starting to rub off on you a little bit. ABeginner

    P.S. If you had actually read the article I linked, you would have realized your urbanization quote was utter nonsense. The FIRST reported cases of AIDS in the US was right AFTER the administering of the Hepititis B (HB) vaccine to NYC gay men, and it had NOTHING to do with urbanization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillith View Post
    From another thread that was closed and moved to Off Topic section;

    Again AB your generousity as expressed in your last post is commendable. Even after asking for a paticular individual to keep it civil.

    Not so with me re the generosity dept.

    Is it any wonder that the know it all Waywasted Troll Jerk you were trying to kindly converse with is someone who had to do his Troll Swagger Dance (TSD) routine in the religious section for a possible female companion or date?

    Be warned; Expect him to troll your thread just like he does almost every other thread - with nincompoop retarded comments that would not challenge even the most unfortunate low IQ simpleton.

    But Good luck, could prove to be an interesting thread - and I'll be rooting for ya AB to get to at least 25 posts without giving up in disgust and asking it to be closed due to the WW troll interference.
    Shalom Lillith, thanks for the kind words..it's those kind of words that turn an ear. ABeginner

  13. #13
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABeginner View Post
    Shalom Beatnik Bob, I did go back to your link and read about the "urbanization." That's interesting about how Africa became urbanized and then HIV spread through Europe and then into the U.S. I think maybe Tahn is starting to rub off on you a little bit.
    Because I don't have an irrational belief that AIDS was born via what... sex? Please, if you wan't to argue pseudo-science then don't address me in your thread.

    P.S. If you had actually read the article I linked, you would have realized your urbanization quote was utter nonsense.
    Your article was clearly outdated. It suggests that AIDS didn't even truly exist until maybe the 1960's. That is inaccurate.

    The FIRST reported cases of AIDS in the US was right AFTER the administering of the Hepititis B (HB) vaccine to NYC gay men, and it had NOTHING to do with urbanization.
    1. Correlation does not predict causation. You just made your first error in fundamental logic.

    2. It didn't?

    Civilization is described by historians as "complex society."

    A complex society contains various interrelated factors. Urbanization, among other things, signifies population density and increased primary interractions. In the case of administering a vaccine, that's considered a secondary interaction to some degree, and it exists as emergent from urbanization.

    For a simplistic way to put it... Diseases are far more dangerous in urban environments. (Again, it's the density and proximity). The fact that urbanization is a real factor indicates that a). The HB vaccine didn't "cause" AIDS unless you have substantial empirical evidence and b). No vaccine would even be necessary in an urban environment.

    3. The U.S. is not indicative of Africa or Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by f4
    You too BB... you're not gay, are you? Not that there's anything wrong with that-- you just seem a little defensive lately.
    Yes, I am gay. Clearly.

    Great deduction skills...
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

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    Leader of the bomb shelter Contributor FinalFour's Avatar
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    Well I'll spare you a monkey-fucking thread... for now.

    I'm waiting on the Mods to tell me what's decent dialogue and what is not.

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    Oh goody a religious thread that has been hijacked from the first post, how novel. Maybe not it contains as many reference verses as most threads with the same crew on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Because I don't have an irrational belief that AIDS was born via what... sex? Please, if you wan't to argue pseudo-science then don't address me in your thread.

    Your article was clearly outdated. It suggests that AIDS didn't even truly exist until maybe the 1960's. That is inaccurate.

    1. Correlation does not predict causation. You just made your first error in fundamental logic.

    2. It didn't?

    Civilization is described by historians as "complex society."

    A complex society contains various interrelated factors. Urbanization, among other things, signifies population density and increased primary interractions. In the case of administering a vaccine, that's considered a secondary interaction to some degree, and it exists as emergent from urbanization.

    For a simplistic way to put it... Diseases are far more dangerous in urban environments. (Again, it's the density and proximity). The fact that urbanization is a real factor indicates that a). The HB vaccine didn't "cause" AIDS unless you have substantial empirical evidence and b). No vaccine would even be necessary in an urban environment.

    3. The U.S. is not indicative of Africa or Europe.

    Yes, I am gay. Clearly.

    Great deduction skills...
    Shalom Beatnik Bob, I guess I have a question for you then. How do you explain that when the AIDS epidemic exploded in the U.S, it was EXCLUSIVELY gay males who contracted it? Oh, a second question: Were gay males the only urbanites living in the U.S. in 1979? Your logic sort of loses me BB. ABeginner

  17. #17
    הלראות Contributor Beatnik Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABeginner View Post
    How do you explain that when the AIDS epidemic exploded in the U.S, it was EXCLUSIVELY gay males who contracted it?
    Can you prove that assertion?

    Oh, a second question: Were gay males the only urbanites living in the U.S. in 1979?
    No.
    The myth that only gays had it when it reached the U.S. is just that... A myth.
    Until you can provide some hard evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by F4
    Well I'll spare you a monkey-fucking thread... for now.
    Such a thread would end up being Off-Topic anyway....
    Poetry is superior to history -Aristotle
    True time is four dimensional -Heidegger
    All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players -Shakespeare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatnik Bob View Post
    Can you prove that assertion?

    No.
    The myth that only gays had it when it reached the U.S. is just that... A myth.
    Until you can provide some hard evidence.

    Such a thread would end up being Off-Topic anyway....
    Shalom Beatnik Bob, so you would like some hard evidence provided? The following hard evidence is from the CDC (Center of Disease Control) and it should provide you with proof that it is NOT a myth about AIDS starting out in the U.S. as an exclusive disease amoung gay males. Enjoy:

    1. MMWR (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) from the CDC for the week of June 5th, 1981 issue states the following:

    In the period October 1980-May 1981, 5 young men, all active homosexuals, were treated for biopsy-confirmed Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia...Editorial Note: Pneumocystis pneumonia in the United States is almost exclusively limited to severely immunosuppressed patients (1). The occurrence of pneumocystosis in these 5 previously healthy individuals without a clinically apparent underlying immunodeficiency is unusual. The fact that these patients were all homosexuals suggests an association between some aspect of a homosexual lifestyle or disease acquired through sexual contact

    Here's the link: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/june_5.htm

    2. Here's another hard fact from the same source:

    Between June 1, 1981, and September 15, 1982, CDC received reports of 593 cases of acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS)... Approximately 75% of AIDS cases occured among homosexual or bisexual males.

    Here's the link: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001163.htm

    3. Let's do one more hard fact from the same source:

    During 1992, state and territorial health departments reported 47,095 cases of acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) to CDC, an increase of 3.5% over the 45,499 cases reported in 1991. As in previous years, most (50.8%) cases were attributable to transmission of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) among homosexual/bisexual men.

    Here's the link: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00021209.htm

    Now, I could overwhelm you with hard facts about how AIDS started out in the U.S. as an exclusive disease for male homosexuals. If you notice in the first report, 100% of those reported deaths were homosexual men, then in the 2nd report, 75% of the reported deaths were homosexual or bisexual men, and then on the 3rd report, 50% of the reported deaths were homosexual/bisexual men. Do you see the pattern? What do you think that pattern represents?

    ABeginner

  19. #19
    Loser of pens Contributor Vuall's Avatar
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    I have the same information from a separate source AB :http://www.avert.org/aids-history-america.htm

    This would indicate to me that the first person to bring AIDS over to the US was gay.

    As this disease is spread primarily by sexual intercourse then it's not surprising it took hold in the gay community first. If the first person had been heterosexual, the gay community would probably have been the last to suffer from it.

    If you look at the figures it was a very low number of gays that had the disease before it jumped to the heterosexual disease. Indicating that it was not a purely gay disease, simply that the route of infection delayed it's spread to the heterosexual community.

    ETA. As for your OP, and trying to shut a Troll up, good luck with that LOL
    "I see no God up here"
    Yuri Gagarin 1961.

  20. #20
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuall View Post
    I have the same information from a separate source AB :http://www.avert.org/aids-history-america.htm

    This would indicate to me that the first person to bring AIDS over to the US was gay.

    As this disease is spread primarily by sexual intercourse then it's not surprising it took hold in the gay community first. If the first person had been heterosexual, the gay community would probably have been the last to suffer from it.

    If you look at the figures it was a very low number of gays that had the disease before it jumped to the heterosexual disease. Indicating that it was not a purely gay disease, simply that the route of infection delayed it's spread to the heterosexual community.

    ETA. As for your OP, and trying to shut a Troll up, good luck with that LOL
    Shalom Vuall, most who have studied the beginning of the AIDS epidemic in the U.S. do find the very obvious historical evidence that AIDS started with the gay male community, as your article indicates. Thank you.

    Concerning your conclusion that AIDS was brought into the U.S. by a "single/lone" gay, is something I would not agree with. I firmly believe that the outbreak of AIDS in the U.S. can be attributed to the late 70's study conducted with a group of gay men in NYC in which they administered a Hepititis B (HB) vaccine developed in Chimpanzee's. I really don't think ONE individual could have spread the virus at the rate it spread. There were a total of 1083 gay men in the NYC study who received the HB vaccine in November of 1978, and then another 1402 "volunteers" were added in other cities which included Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, and St. Louis beginning in March of 1980. Over 2000, very active (at least in that historical timeframe) gay males were made potential carriers of HIV, and that was the catalyst which started the epidemic. One individual gay male would have had to be on steroids with his mating habits for the disease to explode as it did. So no, I'm not in agreement about your theory it being just one infector. But thanks anyway. ABeginner

  21. #21
    Lucky survivor Seasoned Member ruiner4u's Avatar
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    OMG what an amazing thread... And in religion no less!!

    First off HIV/AIDS.. Wow guys! WAY TO BLAME THE FUCKING VICTIMS! 'oh it was the gays! blah blah' 'if it originated in straight people the gays would be last to have it'..


    Jesus christ you all are a novel bunch...

    I was too young in the early 80's to remember when this pandemic exploded, but hadn't AT LEAST 10,000 people died before Saint Raygun even mentioned the condition?

    Maybe if it wasn't 'teh gays' winding up dead our amazing 40th president could have moved some money to the CDC to stop something that, at the time, alarmed physicians.

    I guess its a shame that the disease went from monkey to Bruce to Steve instead of monkey to Betty to David, cause im sure there would have been a response if it was pretty blond straight people ending up dead in ICU's.


    And to all the people reading this who think HIV is someones just rewards for being too sexual, F U C K Y O U.
    When in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout!

  22. #22
    Survivalist! Lillith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABeginner View Post
    Shalom Vuall, most who have studied the beginning of the AIDS epidemic in the U.S. do find the very obvious historical evidence that AIDS started with the gay male community, as your article indicates. Thank you.

    ...... can be attributed to the late 70's study conducted with a group of gay men in NYC in which they administered a Hepititis B (HB) vaccine developed in Chimpanzee's. I really don't think ONE individual could have spread the virus at the rate it spread. There were a total of 1083 gay men in the NYC study who received the HB vaccine in November of 1978, and then another 1402 "volunteers" were added in other cities which included Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, and St. Louis beginning in March of 1980. Over 2000, very active (at least in that historical timeframe) gay males were made potential carriers of HIV, and that was the catalyst which started the epidemic. One individual gay male would have had to be on steroids with his mating habits for the disease to explode as it did. So no, I'm not in agreement about your theory it being just one infector. But thanks anyway. ABeginner
    Are you suggesting (bold) that AIDS was spread intentionally in the gay communities by people being infected by a Hep B vaccine? Similar to what the settlers did to Native Americans with small pox? Or are you suggesting it was accidental.
    Last edited by Lillith; Sep 8th, 2011 at 8:09 AM.
    Galadriel: "I amar prestar aen. Han mathon ne nen. Han mathon ne chae. A han noston ne 'wilith. "Translation: "The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air."

  23. #23
    LOOSE CANNON Contributor Waymarker's Avatar
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    As a Christian, I'm completely free from Establishment control and can say quite confidently that gays brought AIDS on themselves by the intermingling of body fluids.
    But some of you muppets are under Establishment control and have swallowed the politically-correct line that monkeys or something else started it..:)
    Free yourselves from the mind-controlled herd and begin thinking for yourselves-

    Jesus said:- "The world wants you to dance to its tune......God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Matt 11:16/17,Luke 4:18 )

    Look at the hard evidence--AIDS was virtually unknown for thousands of years, but then escalated bigtime soon after the Gay Pride movement began and was even labelled The Gay Plague!
    First Gay Pride march NYC 1969.
    First big rise in AIDS cases after incubation period 1981.

  24. #24
    Survivalist! Lillith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post

    As a Christian, I'm completely free from Establishment control .

    An Oxymoron. Yes, WW, go look the word up in a dictionary.
    Galadriel: "I amar prestar aen. Han mathon ne nen. Han mathon ne chae. A han noston ne 'wilith. "Translation: "The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air."

  25. #25
    . Global Moderator Fut004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post
    You can go kissing gay ass but count me out mate..:)
    Gays go around causing trouble so now i'm giving them payback!
    For examp earlier this year a gay male couple tried to book into a small christian-run guesthouse but were turned away and won compensation from the courts for 'discrimination'.
    Obviously they deliberately set up the owners.
    So if militant loudmouthed gays want trouble, i'll give it to 'em..:)
    Quote Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post
    As a Christian, I'm completely free from Establishment control and can say quite confidently that gays brought AIDS on themselves by the intermingling of body fluids.
    But some of you muppets are under Establishment control and have swallowed the politically-correct line that monkeys or something else started it..:)
    Free yourselves from the mind-controlled herd and begin thinking for yourselves-

    Jesus said:- "The world wants you to dance to its tune......God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Matt 11:16/17,Luke 4:18 )

    Look at the hard evidence--AIDS was virtually unknown for thousands of years, but then escalated bigtime soon after the Gay Pride movement began and was even labelled The Gay Plague!
    First Gay Pride march NYC 1969.
    First big rise in AIDS cases after incubation period 1981.
    Stop trolling the thread. You quite obviously have nothing else to add to the discussion other than your ridiculous anti-gay comments.


    Quote Originally Posted by FinalFour View Post
    Waymaker should be allowed to say how he feels. After all, AO will forever "remain the brilliant and rare place that it is, in allowing the flourishing of original ideas and thought, with the high value that it places on freedom of expression. Even when that exceeds our personal comfort levels."

    So if he wants to bash gays, the way others bash religion, for example-- well--- you wouldn't want to limit his freedom of expression, would you? I mean- he doesn't use naughty words or anything.

    Decide what you want this place to be. Then live with it.

    You too BB... you're not gay, are you? Not that there's anything wrong with that-- you just seem a little defensive lately.
    Stay on topic, F4. AO doesn't need to hear you crying in every single thread. There's already a discussion where you're throwing a temper tantrum, there's no need for another.

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