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Thread: Is abusive langauge a valid response to things we don't like?

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Is abusive langauge a valid response to things we don't like?

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    Is abusive and angry langauge a valid response to the things we take issue with or have a passionate dislike or low tolerance for, or have negative experiences to?
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    Fuq Haters Contributor Nu Kua's Avatar
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    Well to say the anger and frustration that is inherent in a rude or angry response would be to invalidate another persons strong feelings on the matter, feelings which may have a righteous base.

    To answer the question with a slightly different twist-
    "Is abusive and angry langauge a helpful response to the things we take issue with or have a passionate dislike or low tolerance for, or have negative experiences to?"

    Abusive language and such makes it very difficult to see the issue more clearly or rationally.
    It adds fuel to the emotional fire while simultaneously putting out sparks of reason, which rarely (if ever?) solves anything or contributes to understanding.
    (imho)
    "The Alice-in-Wonderland nature of this pronouncement is not lost on me..."

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    Starseed Contributor calliope's Avatar
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    What's meant by abusive language?

    "Fuq Haters"? Fuck Haters....

    Is that abusive language? Or, what qualifies -- whether or not it's personal?

    (Oh, I'm not criticising, Nu Kua -- I just want to know how it's meant -- obviously I use "language" at times in writing, mostly because it's a mode of "literary" expression for me, lol. If that qualifies as "literary".)
    absit invidia

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    Bank Robber Contributor Tsunami's Avatar
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    Abusive and angry don't have to go together.

    "You twat! I will stamp on your neck and poke knitting needles in your eyes, you worthless piece of shit, if you talk about my Mum again!"

    Or

    "I am angered and frustrated that you feel a need to bring my Mum into the conversation. I cannot debate with you if refuse to be an adult."

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    Karma caster Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider View Post
    Is abusive and angry langauge a valid response to the things we take issue with or have a passionate dislike or low tolerance for, or have negative experiences to?

    Only if you wish to be assertive and self confident in your own word.

    If you prefer the doormat approach to conversation then by all means lurk more.
    Jim Crow America relegated Blacks to the back of buses. Israel wants Arabs excluded from the bus entirely.

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    Fuq Haters Contributor Nu Kua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calliope View Post
    What's meant by abusive language?

    "Fuq Haters"? Fuck Haters....

    Is that abusive language? Or, what qualifies -- whether or not it's personal?

    (Oh, I'm not criticising, Nu Kua -- I just want to know how it's meant -- obviously I use "language" at times in writing, mostly because it's a mode of "literary" expression for me, lol. If that qualifies as "literary".)
    Oh, no worries, Calliope. I'd of used 'fuck" spelled correctly but the system wouldn't allow it. It is meant just like it is said- fuck haters. Fuck people and organizations who destroy and/or kill for ignoble purposes. Fuck abusers, fuck the people who knowingly excuse them. "Fuck" not as in, "I promote the fucking of this entity in a sexual manner, come on, baby, let's get it on!", but "fuck" as in, "I promote that not an ounce of respect be given towards that type of element, which is the anti-thesis of all life." It's more of a motto, a self-expression, not meant to be a directive, though of course people will take from it what they will.


    I guess if it is to be taken personally by anyone who reads it, then I think the question might best be directed at the person who feels offended by it, because people are different and one may be offended for one reason while another may be offended for a different reason altogether. One person might also feel strongly against the abusers of life, while taking offense to curse words in general. Another person might feel offended because somehow, they think I am referring to them or their stance in particular, or that maybe inside of themselves they wonder if they are 'haters'. Some people might think it is somewhat contradictory to "fuck the haters", ie "hate the haters", in that it is somehow contradictory- well with that I can see the yin-yang. Life is nuanced and contradictory on so many levels, kind of like an Ingmar Bergman film.

    Generally though, I know the intent and the meaning as it comes from me, and don't use it to insult any group of people in particular, but rather the overall element of a hater mentality that crops up in a variety of scenarios, and expressed in a number of ways.

    And actually that is very applicable to this thread. Where is the line dividing makes words actual abuse, to what makes them feel abusive to some but not so to others? Because being human beings, with as different walks of life as are represented here, we all have our perceptions and such and sore points- but I suspect there is a place where we'd all agree for the most part- "Now THAT is abusive!"
    "The Alice-in-Wonderland nature of this pronouncement is not lost on me..."

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    FU Q 2 Contributor custompainter's Avatar
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    I dont know what youre talkin about. };)
    [SIGPIC][SIGPIC]

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    Starseed Contributor calliope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nu Kua View Post
    I guess if it is to be taken personally by anyone who reads it, then I think the question might best be directed at the person who feels offended by it, because people are different and one may be offended for one reason while another may be offended for a different reason altogether. One person might also feel strongly against the abusers of life, while taking offense to curse words in general. Another person might feel offended because somehow, they think I am referring to them or their stance in particular...
    Interesting response...very relevant to the thread topic --

    Is abusive and angry langauge a valid response to the things we take issue with or have a passionate dislike or low tolerance for, or have negative experiences to?
    absit invidia

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    Starseed Contributor calliope's Avatar
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    I don't know whether "profanity" equates with "abusive language".....maybe sometimes?

    Language can be abusive without being profane.

    Here's an interesting thread on this subject:

    Profanity on forum just dirties the scene

    http://forums.armageddononline.org/p...st-t24796.html
    absit invidia

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nu Kua View Post
    Well to say the anger and frustration that is inherent in a rude or angry response would be to invalidate another persons strong feelings on the matter, feelings which may have a righteous base.

    To answer the question with a slightly different twist-
    "Is abusive and angry langauge a helpful response to the things we take issue with or have a passionate dislike or low tolerance for, or have negative experiences to?"

    Abusive language and such makes it very difficult to see the issue more clearly or rationally.
    It adds fuel to the emotional fire while simultaneously putting out sparks of reason, which rarely (if ever?) solves anything or contributes to understanding.
    (imho)
    Yeah good points Nu, like the way how you changed the question which I suppose is more useful depending on your audience.

    I guess anyone can use the words either 'helpful' or 'valid'. My choice of the word 'valid' is that it helps remove or add in a different way to 'helpful'....and no I'm not being dogmatic here...lol....both useful in posing slightly different angles.
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calliope View Post
    What's meant by abusive language?

    "Fuq Haters"? Fuck Haters....

    Is that abusive language? Or, what qualifies -- whether or not it's personal?

    (Oh, I'm not criticising, Nu Kua -- I just want to know how it's meant -- obviously I use "language" at times in writing, mostly because it's a mode of "literary" expression for me, lol. If that qualifies as "literary".)
    What qualifies as abusive language is what stirs negative emotion in you. I hear the word 'fuck' all of the time, and it isn't necessarily abusive to me...erm depending on the situation.....depends on how well people dig and what buttons they push. It can be spoken or written...not forgetting that body language plays a part too.....ooops....another slant to this I guess!
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calliope View Post
    I don't know whether "profanity" equates with "abusive language".....maybe sometimes?

    Language can be abusive without being profane.

    Here's an interesting thread on this subject:

    Profanity on forum just dirties the scene

    http://forums.armageddononline.org/p...st-t24796.html
    Thanks Calliope....just had a brief look at the thread you posted....some good examples of how people have answered whilst at the same time adding to profanity in an attempt to justify it.
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch View Post
    Only if you wish to be assertive and self confident in your own word.

    If you prefer the doormat approach to conversation then by all means lurk more.
    Nothing wrong with the door matt approach....provided the rules are equal.....that however is a difficult one to achieve.
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    Fuq Haters Contributor Nu Kua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider View Post
    What qualifies as abusive language is what stirs negative emotion in you. I hear the word 'fuck' all of the time, and it isn't necessarily abusive to me...erm depending on the situation.....depends on how well people dig and what buttons they push. It can be spoken or written...not forgetting that body language plays a part too.....ooops....another slant to this I guess!
    Yes and isn't that the thing- the intent behind the word, the feeling behind it?
    Have you ever had someone say cruel things to you in a very calm, sweet voice, using no curse words?
    That's part of what makes it so difficult to answer. And I think online s often what is meant as something lighthearted or in parody is sometimes taken at the utmost seriousness. I think online it is a little easier to overlay our own perspective of things onto what the other person might be saying, because there are a lo of "cues" we are missing, if that makes sense. It almost makes internet communications and discussions a mirror- rather, maybe better to say how we might perceive them, could more easily be a reflection of ourselves.

    I'm not sure if you meant online communications or life in general, but I know you get my drift. :p

    Well though... yeah, there it is again. Do our re-actions to others words tend to show what or how something might be mirrored to us, personally?

    I know there are definite "trigger subjects" for me that I have to be very careful with, and too often, not successfully... in that my strong feelings on a matter sometimes causes me to read others responses differently than what they intended. I feel that way because sometimes after settling down some, when I re-read the topic, I see where I missed something that would have indicated to me that I was reacting to my own thing, as opposed to what they were saying.
    Or something like that.
    "The Alice-in-Wonderland nature of this pronouncement is not lost on me..."

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    Starseed Contributor calliope's Avatar
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    This is why I think it's a good idea to get a good working definition of exactly what "abusive language" is.

    We're subject to abusive, insulting language all the time, and it never includes profanity.
    absit invidia

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nu Kua View Post
    Yes and isn't that the thing- the intent behind the word, the feeling behind it?
    Have you ever had someone say cruel things to you in a very calm, sweet voice, using no curse words?
    That's part of what makes it so difficult to answer. And I think online s often what is meant as something lighthearted or in parody is sometimes taken at the utmost seriousness. I think online it is a little easier to overlay our own perspective of things onto what the other person might be saying, because there are a lo of "cues" we are missing, if that makes sense. It almost makes internet communications and discussions a mirror- rather, maybe better to say how we might perceive them, could more easily be a reflection of ourselves.

    I'm not sure if you meant online communications or life in general, but I know you get my drift. :p

    Well though... yeah, there it is again. Do our re-actions to others words tend to show what or how something might be mirrored to us, personally?
    Nu you have an amazing insight...thank you for completely grasping my point and making it understandable with respect to written communication and the difference to physically communicating.

    I guess getting to know someone online takes considerable time and many communications before being able to grasp their take on things for the most part, but even in that scope of things some exchanges can be none-offensive though abusive and others though none abusive can be competely offending? Is 'abusive language' a useful tool in conveying who we are and what we stand for as individuals?

    What calms and what provokes? Tsunami made an interesting contrast looking back.....
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calliope View Post
    This is why I think it's a good idea to get a good working definition of exactly what "abusive language" is.

    We're subject to abusive, insulting language all the time, and it never includes profanity.
    I agree....but....this is also subjective......

    To allow anyone to contribute without having to think to hard...abusive langauge is either that language that is inherently abusive with profanity or without.

    There are very subtle abusers I agree.....but there are also people in the world who can pick up on this too...
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    just around the corner uki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider View Post
    Is abusive and angry langauge a valid response to the things we take issue with or have a passionate dislike or low tolerance for, or have negative experiences to?
    language is only taken as abusive and angry by fucking mental midgets with major confidence and insecurity issues asshole.
    if i offend you, you are part of the fucking problem.

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    language is only taken as abusive and angry by fucking mental midgets with major confidence and insecurity issues asshole.
    Indeed...a philosophical chuckle follows....then a serious...yes but, you've made a point in your choice of words and answer but is that an answer?
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    just around the corner uki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider View Post
    Indeed...a philosophical chuckle follows....then a serious...yes but, you've made a point in your choice of words and answer but is that an answer?
    of course it is... i do my best to purposefully use these words in a beligerent manner in order to see who becomes offended and bent out of shape, aswell as making sure no one confuses my posts with anything less than what i fucking believe in.
    if i offend you, you are part of the fucking problem.

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    of course it is... i do my best to purposefully use these words in a beligerent manner in order to see who becomes offended and bent out of shape, aswell as making sure no one confuses my posts with anything less than what i fucking believe in.
    Thanks....I believe on that basis you have made a legitimate claim.....and a very humurous one too....

    Can I ask....is there a difference to you in using a straight question with good and well sited profanity without being abusive or harbouring hidden dark humour that is both abusive and a profanity?
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    just around the corner uki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider View Post
    Can I ask....is there a difference to you in using a straight question with good and well sited profanity without being abusive or harbouring hidden dark humour that is both abusive and a profanity?
    i guess it depends on my mood and the person asking the fucking question. LOL
    if i offend you, you are part of the fucking problem.

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    i guess it depends on my mood and the person asking the fucking question. LOL
    LOL...then the whole conversation becomes a political one???
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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    just around the corner uki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider View Post
    LOL...then the whole conversation becomes a political one???
    if that is your perspective, then yes.
    if i offend you, you are part of the fucking problem.

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    Launchin' Nukes at Noobs Contributor palerider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    if that is your perspective, then yes.
    Oh no...I'm asking you directly......what makes you offer the language in your exchange with people?
    "Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe." -Albert Einstein [1879-1955]

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