How Would You React to Child Abuse in Public?

[palerider]

Incidentally let's not forget that verbal abuse can be another form of abuse by a parent who uses the kid as a verbal punching bag, either because of simple sadism, or as a way of relieving the adults own stresses.
My old man was a workaholic and he often used to take it out on me, especially when he'd had a drink.
I wonder how many kids out there suffer verbal abuse ("The Invisible Abuse"), it leaves mo marks or bruises but can hurt a kid bad by shooting his self-esteem to pieces.
Anybody at all can be a parent, it doesn't need a licence or qualifications or training, and sadly many are just not up to the job..

I completely agree with you whole heartedly Waymarker, verbal abuse can be infinitely damaging to a child. Sorry to hear you had to endure this....how are you now?

[DontBeAfraid]

Anger won't work. I have not at any time asked you for an apology.

You called me an abuser for standing up for myself...

I don't remember calling you names only the one you unwittingly gave yourself 'dick' which I think personally is a bit harsh!

You called EVERYONE who doesnt agree with you disgusting... and I AM a dick.

There is no poetry in any of my writing, though I have to say your entries seem to be void of any objective content other than displaying your absolute dissapproval of my challenge to you....perhaps I hit on a raw nerve??

What challenge? Go reread the thread. I have and there is no challenge... Just you acting like a bitch.

Your use of the word 'lady' doesn't bother me though gender wise you are of course incorrect, I happen to admire women for their many qualities, and as a man you seem to let the side down.

You post as if you have a vagina... It doesnt matter if you actually have one or not, judging from your posts it is fair to assume you are a schizo female.

With respect to being abused....I never asked for it, perhaps thats a significant property about the whole area of abuse....nobody asks for it!

Finding reasons and ways to be a victim is asking for it. You tried to make yourself a victim here in this thread, while avoiding ALL responsibility for it... How can we know you didnt find ways to be a victim before. I pointed out that all mammals learn fastest by way of pain. It doesnt matter what the lesson is that needs learning, pain teaches it. This is a byproduct of evolution. It is WHY we feel pain at all, to know when we have made a mistake. As humans most of us have the ability to learn without pain... And most of us can be reasoned with... But some bullies couldnt be reasoned with and if I couldnt talk a bully out of picking on me or my friends then I would teach them it was a bad idea the way evolution did... And, this is another advantage of being human and having a fair sized brain, I can imagine a situation, however unlikely, in which I could see not being able to convince a female that that physically abusing(or assaulting...) me is a bad idea and she might need a dose of reality... Of course I avoid crazy bitches like the plague so I dont think I would ever ACTUALLY end up in that type of situation. If you feel the need to respond to ANY of my post make it this part. This is the only important sentiment in all of my posts in this thread that you have ignored.

If you have difficulty reading or understanding this 'poetic' response I can clarify for you in basic english.

With this post you didnt try to "pretty up" your bullshit. It was easily comprehensible. I pointed out exactly which parts of your other posts that werent and you chose not to clarify... If I have trouble understanding any future posts of yours Ill point out WHERE they dont make sense as well.

[palerider]

You called me an abuser for standing up for myself...

You called EVERYONE who doesnt agree with you disgusting... and I AM a dick.
What challenge? Go reread the thread. I have and there is no challenge... Just you acting like a bitch.

You post as if you have a vagina... It doesnt matter if you actually have one or not, judging from your posts it is fair to assume you are a schizo female.

Finding reasons and ways to be a victim is asking for it. You tried to make yourself a victim here in this thread, while avoiding ALL responsibility for it... How can we know you didnt find ways to be a victim before. I pointed out that all mammals learn fastest by way of pain. It doesnt matter what the lesson is that needs learning, pain teaches it. This is a byproduct of evolution. It is WHY we feel pain at all, to know when we have made a mistake. As humans most of us have the ability to learn without pain... And most of us can be reasoned with... But some bullies couldnt be reasoned with and if I couldnt talk a bully out of picking on me or my friends then I would teach them it was a bad idea the way evolution did... And, this is another advantage of being human and having a fair sized brain, I can imagine a situation, however unlikely, in which I could see not being able to convince a female that that physically abusing(or assaulting...) me is a bad idea and she might need a dose of reality... Of course I avoid crazy bitches like the plague so I dont think I would ever ACTUALLY end up in that type of situation. If you feel the need to respond to ANY of my post make it this part. This is the only important sentiment in all of my posts in this thread that you have ignored.


With this post you didnt try to "pretty up" your bullshit. It was easily comprehensible. I pointed out exactly which parts of your other posts that werent and you chose not to clarify... If I have trouble understanding any future posts of yours Ill point out WHERE they dont make sense as well.

Pure waffle.......you are now saying in the rhetoric you write that you would avoid 'crazy bitches like the plague'....erm isn't that what I said at the begining with more appropriate words...though what I mean't was to withdraw from a situation rather than use force?

I don't see that as a small child I somehow asked to be abused....perhaps in your mind 'people ask for it' but I don't agree with you and thousands wouldn't.

DBA this the conversation is just simply getting very circular, I will give you the benefit of the doubt in terms of issues over comprehension, however your tone has a lot to be desired....offensive and no insight. I actually now feel for you in some way...because whatever happened to you in life you fail to see how it has affected you as a person...

[Nu Kua]

DBA isn't mean, (irl, I know he is quite the challenge here sometimes) he'd never hit a baby, he'd never abuse a woman, or anything/anyone else. He only said he'd hit a woman if she was abusing a child or if she was coming at him like a man- to defend himself.

We employ a lot of dark humor around here... one of my very first posts here was picture of a cute little sleeping infant... somebody placed it all nice and swaddled in a turkey roaster pan and took a picture of it by an open oven door, with mittened hands holding the 'baby pan' as if they were bout to slide it in.

It was meant to be funny- cute- I can just imagine the parents laughing so hard they cried (though more likely this was a joke pulled by Dad when Mom was taking a nap!) and maybe saying to themselves "OMG! THis is terrible! Why am I laughing, lololol!"

None of us here would laugh is a baby really was about to be roasted in the oven. It's the absurdity that makes it funny, and a safe relief from the pressure of a harsh subject which makes it OK, in my book, anyway.

I think when we over-use some words and especially out of context, they begin to lose a little of their meaning when people hear them.

[palerider]

I sense Nu that you are right, and the conversation on this thread has become one of personal feelings more than objective matter.

It has however raised contentious issues....sadly

[DontBeAfraid]

Pure waffle.......you are now saying in the rhetoric you write that you would avoid 'crazy bitches like the plague'....erm isn't that what I said at the begining with more appropriate words...though what I mean't was to withdraw from a situation rather than use force?

I don't see that as a small child I somehow asked to be abused....perhaps in your mind 'people ask for it' but I don't agree with you and thousands wouldn't.

DBA this the conversation is just simply getting very circular, I will give you the benefit of the doubt in terms of issues over comprehension, however your tone has a lot to be desired....offensive and no insight. I actually now feel for you in some way...because whatever happened to you in life you fail to see how it has affected you as a person...

Garbage post from a garbage poster... Go cry on someone else s leg.

[palerider]

Garbage post from a garbage poster... Go cry on someone else s leg.

Interesting you think that......anyhow....I will agree to disagree with you.

[Cartesiantheater]

A man "punching" a female is just as bad as the female punching the child. All it does is makes you an "abuser" to the "abuser". One is a bad as the other. There are many ways of putting somebody (anybody) on the ground without punching. IMO Real men dont punch women...NO MATTER WHAT.

I agree with you mostly. HOWEVER, anyone who would stand by while a child is being abused without having their anger rise to the point of forgetting our society's chauvinistic leanings is just as guilty as the abuser.

Those who wouldn't at least CONSIDER for a MOMENT a response with a high level of violent but non-lethal force to an adult, regardless of gender, deliberately hurting a child (beyond acceptable discipline) is pure swine in my book.



And as far as gender, you equating an adult male hitting an adult female BECAUSE THAT FEMALE IS ABUSING A CHILD with a female abusing a child is quite a jump. You should feel ANGER at seeing a child abused, whether that abuser is male OR female. If you don't, something's quite wrong with you.

Domestic violence is one thing. A male bullying a female is despicable. But intervening or avenging child abuse is an entirely different ethical issue.

IF YOU SEE ABUSE REPORT IT thats all you can do.....think of the child when the abuser gets them home...IDIOTS THE LOT OF YOU

Then beat their ass AND call the cops. Why should one occur at the exclusion of the other? You raise a wise point, however.



Much like capital punishment for murderers and child molesters is the result of natural anger at despicable crimes, I feel child physical abuse fits that mold as well. One should at least WANT to beat the hell out of someone hurting a child. If you don't at least feel the ANGER and URGE to lay out a child abuser, then you've got as many problems as someone who actually would do it.

[palerider]

Then beat their ass AND call the cops. Why should one occur at the exclusion of the other? You raise a wise point, however.



Much like capital punishment for murderers and child molesters is the result of natural anger at despicable crimes, I feel child physical abuse fits that mold as well. One should at least WANT to beat the hell out of someone hurting a child. If you don't at least feel the ANGER and URGE to lay out a child abuser, then you've got as many problems as someone who actually would do it.

It is what is ...yes!

I once saw a father punching his child in the back of car in a multi story car park....in my home town...years ago now .... I challeneged him and reported it......I still remember the poor kid looking dazed by the whole thing and wondering what will happen next?

[Cartesiantheater]

Anger won't work. I have not at any time asked you for an apology. I don't remember calling you names only the one you unwittingly gave yourself 'dick' which I think personally is a bit harsh!

Oh, and I hate to do this, but in reading this entertaining debate between you and DBA, the following needs to be pointed out:

IDIOTS THE LOT OF YOU

A male twat dictating? An idiot alarmist announcing bullshit.

.you JERK......

to think that somehow a pure none-starter like you

you fool.

clearly you truly are a 'dick'

*as you mentioned


To put the final touches on the irony:

isn't that what most abusers do anyhow....absolutely no admission of any shared responsibility...JUST LIKE YOU

Since you both were doing it, count this as a warning (DBA too). However, thank you both for ending the excessive blatant name calling in this thread. Obviously, were there any continuation of it in this thread it would have resulted in needless Nazi-Mod warnings and infractions, etc etc *this post alone will already have my "fan club" up in arms about my Nazi-modding...

[Waymarker]

I completely agree with you whole heartedly Waymarker, verbal abuse can be infinitely damaging to a child. Sorry to hear you had to endure this....how are you now?

Fine thanks, the holes my old man shot in my self-confidence as a child are still there but I patched over them years ago when i was old enough to realise he was just a little loose-mouthed shit..:)
I still trip over the odd word now and again (a mini-stutter) when talking to people thanks to him but it's no big deal, and anyway lots of kids have always had to suffer bad parenting and always will, even Winston Churchill's dad used to call him a "disappointment" etc so it's nothing new.
Like I've said, anybody is allowed to bring a kid into the world even if they haven't a clue how to be a good parent..

From todays local Plymouth UK paper-

"A mother convicted of leaving her children home alone.. is pregnant again.
In January, Emma Daly was convicted of leaving the three young children unsupervised while she went to the pub.
A neighbour heard a child screaming at around 10pm on July 9 last year and looked out to see a toddler standing in the doorway, wearing only a T-shirt.
On entering the flat, she found a younger girl covered in vomit and a baby girl with a soggy nappy and a red-raw bottom.
Miss Daly was said to be suffering from post-natal depression and had been abandoned by her partner while two months pregnant with her third child.
She was sentenced to a community order after admitting three counts of child cruelty and told to perform 150 hours of unpaid community work."

[custompainter]

I agree with you mostly. HOWEVER, anyone who would stand by while a child is being abused without having their anger rise to the point of forgetting our society's chauvinistic leanings is just as guilty as the abuser.

Those who wouldn't at least CONSIDER for a MOMENT a response with a high level of violent but non-lethal force to an adult, regardless of gender, deliberately hurting a child (beyond acceptable discipline) is pure swine in my book.



And as far as gender, you equating an adult male hitting an adult female BECAUSE THAT FEMALE IS ABUSING A CHILD with a female abusing a child is quite a jump. You should feel ANGER at seeing a child abused, whether that abuser is male OR female. If you don't, something's quite wrong with you.

Domestic violence is one thing. A male bullying a female is despicable. But intervening or avenging child abuse is an entirely different ethical issue.



Then beat their ass AND call the cops. Why should one occur at the exclusion of the other? You raise a wise point, however.



Much like capital punishment for murderers and child molesters is the result of natural anger at despicable crimes, I feel child physical abuse fits that mold as well. One should at least WANT to beat the hell out of someone hurting a child. If you don't at least feel the ANGER and URGE to lay out a child abuser, then you've got as many problems as someone who actually would do it.

Oh I would be pissed off alright. But It would only traumatize the child to attack its mother physically. And losing control of yourself physically and mentally is a sure indication of your integrity.
LIKE I SAID, have another female remove the child from the situation and if the mother wants to take you on,you put her on the ground by force. You dont punch her in the face thinking you are extracting revenge for the child.
And its not society that dictates chauvenism when it comes to punching women,its the difference between right and wrong. As it is wrong for the big and strong to prey on the small and weak. Period.

[custompainter]

Oh, and I hate to do this, but in reading this entertaining debate between you and DBA, the following needs to be pointed out:












*as you mentioned


To put the final touches on the irony:




Since you both were doing it, count this as a warning (DBA too). However, thank you both for ending the excessive blatant name calling in this thread. Obviously, were there any continuation of it in this thread it would have resulted in needless Nazi-Mod warnings and infractions, etc etc *this post alone will already have my "fan club" up in arms about my Nazi-modding...

Another fine example of your one -sided modding skills. You publicly admonish the other person and not your little butt buddy DBA. Him you admonish privately with snickers and little girl giggles. And you really should change who you hang out with. Run with dogs,and you get fleas.

[phedrereine]

CT said "DBA too"... He acknowledged they were "both" doing it. He admonished both of them publicly. Just saying... lol.


The sad thing about child abuse is that it's rare to see it in public. The worst abuse happens behind closed doors, where no one in the public can witness it. That's why I think it's almost a moot thing... I've never actually seen it. I've seen mothers maybe unfairly and unwisely bitching and yelling at their undisciplined kids quite a few times, but I've never seen abuse.

I think the most important thing, if you do see it, is to call the cops. Personally, I think physical confrontations should be avoided, unless the child is in immediate danger. The problem with vicious confrontations is that it muddies the issue. The parent can claim that you unfairly assaulted them and the cops may not be sure who was really in the wrong, because it was one on one. Especially if no cameras or other witnesses caught the abuse. And the child will probably defend their parent out of fear and complex feelings. You don't want to stray the focus from the child, and you want to ensure that there will be no more abuse in the future.

[palerider]

Oh, and I hate to do this, but in reading this entertaining debate between you and DBA, the following needs to be pointed out:












*as you mentioned


To put the final touches on the irony:




Since you both were doing it, count this as a warning (DBA too). However, thank you both for ending the excessive blatant name calling in this thread. Obviously, were there any continuation of it in this thread it would have resulted in needless Nazi-Mod warnings and infractions, etc etc *this post alone will already have my "fan club" up in arms about my Nazi-modding...

From someone soo educated.....thats a little one sided CT...however if you must!

[Cartesiantheater]

Another fine example of your one -sided modding skills. You publicly admonish the other person and not your little butt buddy DBA. Him you admonish privately with snickers and little girl giggles. And you really should change who you hang out with. Run with dogs,and you get fleas.

No offense, but you missed the entire point. DBA WILLINGLY ADMITTED to personal attacks in this thread, while the other guilty party LIED ABOUT IT. Being an asshole (DBA) is one thing. Being an asshole AND a hypocrite and/or liar is another. Follow?



EDIT- since I doubt you'll understand from that, I'll break it down for you:

One part of the post was to point out hypocrisy in calling someone out for name calling WHILST DOING IT as well. That was general AO poster stuff.

The other part, directed at BOTH parties, was to inform them that such excessive name calling is against the rules. That was general modding stuff.

Is that comprehensible, or have I erred again in my explanation?

From someone soo educated.....thats a little one sided CT...however if you must!

The asymmetry of my post is offset by the asymmetry between DBA admitting to name calling and you lying about it (in fact the latter asymmetry is the exact reason that I posted several instances of you doing what you claimed you did not).

[Cartesiantheater]

Back to the thread,

Oh I would be pissed off alright. But It would only traumatize the child to attack its mother physically. And losing control of yourself physically and mentally is a sure indication of your integrity.
LIKE I SAID, have another female remove the child from the situation and if the mother wants to take you on,you put her on the ground by force. You dont punch her in the face thinking you are extracting revenge for the child.
And its not society that dictates chauvenism when it comes to punching women,its the difference between right and wrong. As it is wrong for the big and strong to prey on the small and weak. Period.

Maybe I'm not as set in the belief that women are inferior to men as you are (or perhaps less caustically, as in need of protection, as if they're helpless and need to wear white dresses and long gloves whilst having fair skin from never stepping foot outside and never having to open a door, etc), but personally, I believe that when a stronger party abuses a weaker (man to child OR women to child or man to man or women to women or whatever) they forfeit the right to depend on arguments of being the weaker party in any act that avenges their previous abuse of power.

[custompainter]

Lol youre good,but not that good. The truth is known here. Now go find someone to threaten with your little hammer.

[DontBeAfraid]

What truth? Is nobody actually reading the posts here?

[Rabid1]

Personally I've intervened a few times, the first was about 25 years ago when a male primary school teacher touched a little girl between her legs, I contacted the school but they hushed it up. However the school was closed down within a few months and turned into a community centre, perhaps other parents had complained because he'd messed with their kids too. I don't think the teacher was ever prosecuted. Wonder where he's teaching now?
(With hindsight I should have gone straight to the police, but the little girls parents didn't want to cause a fuss so my hands were tied. Happily the girl laughed it off and forgot it, growing up to be a fine well-adjusted woman)

The second time occured about 15 years ago, it was a form of abuse because a dad had locked his son out. I was letting the cats out gone midnight when I saw a dark shape huddled against a wall in the shadows, and it turned out to be a young boy about 10 yrs old. "My dad's locked me out" he said, so I called the cops and walked him home (a couple of streets away) and stood outside waiting for the police to arrive, but his dad opened the door first and the boy went in.
I hung around for 15 minutes waiting for the police but they never turned up so I went home and phoned them up to tell them what had happened, I don't know if they ever followed it up by interviewing the dad.
For good measure I contacted the boys school (he'd told me his name and his school) and I told the head teacher what had happened and left it with them.

The next incident was about 5 years ago when I saw a male chap sunbathing stark naked on a grassy verge along Plymouth seafront in full view of people and kids so I phoned the police but they never turned up, so after 20 mins I went home.
I know it wasn't 'abuse' but it might have upset kids.

PS- I was abused myself as a young boy by our headmaster but it wasn't serious, he'd abused about half the boys in the school and we just laughed it off because we thought he was just an eccentric old geezer.
What he used to do was call a boy out to the front of the class on some trumped up charge, tell him to bend over (pants not dropped), then whack him a few times on his ass with the inside of his clenched fist.
It never hurt us because he slowed down his swing over the last few inches so that it was more of a gentle groping nuzzle in the crack between the buttocks.
(The history teacher at the same school was also an old perv, he used to let his favourite boys sit on his lap during lessons)

This is not intervening. This is doing just enough to feel better. This is not an attack on Wayfarer, just he gave a perfect example what people in general do. I even did it. It wasn't until doing let someone get killed that I realized feeling good about yourself isn't enough. Had I done more would the woman still be alive, probably not the guy who did it was literally insane."

In the case of a teacher molesting a girl, if you saw it happen? I would risk jail time to put a serious hurt on the guy and still make sure he did time. Unfortunately in the States we live under the dream that these people are fixable so no punishment is really justice inside the legal system unless paperwork gets screwed up and they get released in gp.

The kid locked out is tough, but why give the dad a chance. Keep the kid outside and call the cops. We had a neighbor who locked her 9 year old daughter out of the apartment while she banged her boyfriend in the middle of the night and we called the cops and walked the girl to the corner to wait for them. You had to see our neighborhood to really understand this was not just bad judgement but putting the kids life in danger.

One of our biggest problems is people are so afraid of getting involved when the real danger is from not getting involved.

[custompainter]

I knew it wouldnt be long before you two got together here. lol. Strength in numbers! Only im not going to play. Cya

[DontBeAfraid]

Read the thread you little bizzle.

[palerider]

No offense, but you missed the entire point. DBA WILLINGLY ADMITTED to personal attacks in this thread, while the other guilty party LIED ABOUT IT. Being an asshole (DBA) is one thing. Being an asshole AND a hypocrite and/or liar is another. Follow?



EDIT- since I doubt you'll understand from that, I'll break it down for you:

One part of the post was to point out hypocrisy in calling someone out for name calling WHILST DOING IT as well. That was general AO poster stuff.

The other part, directed at BOTH parties, was to inform them that such excessive name calling is against the rules. That was general modding stuff.

Is that comprehensible, or have I erred again in my explanation?













The asymmetry of my post is offset by the asymmetry between DBA admitting to name calling and you lying about it (in fact the latter asymmetry is the exact reason that I posted several instances of you doing what you claimed you did not).

I understood where you were coming from the first time round CT. As for lying....no.....direct none acknowledgement of the opponent....which I think in any politcal arena is a valid tactic.

Clearly there is no point in addressing the issue any further and actually afters Nu's intervention I drew the matter to a quick close....

I am guilty as charged but only as equally as the opponent....I have no problems accepting that...funny that some how you wish to push the matter by restating and magnifying only my words.

But enough.....you are the moderator.....I have nothing more to say on the matter

[uki]

mental midgets that abuse children deserve to get their ass beat.

[Waymarker]

Incidentally there was a big row all over the papers here in Plymouth last year when a convicted peedo joined a local church. The dozy church elders knew all about his past but decided not to tell the ordinary church members!
Yep you guessed it, he went on to abuse members kids..

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Ex-y...ail/story.html