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Thread: Hi, ask me questions about The Garden of Eden

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    Dead Meat paygan's Avatar
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    Hi, ask me questions about The Garden of Eden

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    Hello there!

    How this fits with Armageddon, i'll let you judge, but my name's Paul and I'm on an important mission to show and share with the world the location of real Garden of Eden and central site of the Agricultural (Neolithic) Revolution. I led the field walk there in November 2009 and saw the damage being inflicted and the urgent need for protection by getting World Heritage Site status, requiring public support and official investigation.



    This location of the site was comprehensively mapped out by Christian O'Brien in his 1985 book, "The Genius of The Few" where he identified it through descriptions given in the earliest Nippur Tablets (The Barton Cylinder, etc), Atrahasis and The Book of Enoch, along with other mentions in the Bible, The Book of Jubilees, The Koran etc. The Sumerians were first recorded to have written about this site and called it "Kharsag".

    Eden was located on Google Earth by Edmund Marriage, Director of The Patrick Foundation's Golden Age Project in 2006. He discovered a mile long Great Watercourse and other features in place as per O'Brien's map. I led the field walk recently in an initial survey which has provided the first video (unreleased) and photographic evidence of the site for peer review. Please see these maps for both Google Earth and Christian O'Brien's placement of the remains of structures at this REAL place identified as the starting point of the Neolithic (Agricultural) Revolution at around 9,500BC, soon after the end of the last glacial - The Younger Dryas.

    "Kharsag" in the Sumerian Nippur Tablets means "head enclosure". Eden itself comes from the Sumerian word "Edin" meaning "plain" or "steppe". The entire Rashaya basin floods every 5-10 years with millions of cubic gallons of water, forming a huge lake that can still be partially seen on Google Earth from the last one in 2005-2006. We found out from the Lebanese Red Cross that they had put dye down a sinkhole near the Great Watercourse that drains the entire basin. The dye came out in the Hasbani. After seeing all this, I now strongly suspect that the people who built Kharsag's reservoir, dam and watercourse did so to control the Lebanese and Anti-Lebanese mountain run off waters and direct them out through the Wadi El-Neirab into the lowlands of "Eden", the area around and likely to the South of Kharsag, which links into the Jordan river and associated famous valley...





    Professor Daniel Zohary advanced the suggestion that grain was first cultivated in one location and this should be an enticing suggestion for archaeologists to prove at this site. If there was such a massive originating site for the Neolithic Revolution, it might re-shape current theories substantially, regardless of any religious links involved in the locating of such a site. Steve Gagne also gives some great supporting evidence in his paper about early crop domestication in the Levant.

    The centre of cultural diffusion at the time was the Garden of Eden, or Kharsag if you prefer - a bounded area in the mountains, sending out water and knowledge to the grassland/steppe area around, known as Eden.The Rashaya Basin is 8 miles North of Mount Hermon, 25 miles East of Damascus, near the town of Rashaya El-Wadi and village of Kfar Qooq.

    The theories about Eden being a central site of the agricultural revolution between the Tigris and Euphrates are disproven archaeologically as this area would have been unsuitable for agriculture, which required the rainfall and mountain waters of the Lebanon and Anti-Lebanon ranges, not in Iraq or Bahrain... and that Sumerian civilization didn't move to Eridu, their first city until around 5,500BC. The starting point of the agricultural revolution which is currently best suggested c. 7,000 B.C by "Kurgan Hypothesis" and Colin Renfrew's "Anatolian Hypothesis", which anyone knowledgeable on finds may well speculate misses the facts by being too far north and up to 1,500 years too late.

    Evidence that Anatolia is too North include the the development of agriculture at Jericho, cultivated crops are also found between 9,800 B.C and 8,400 B.C at Tell Aswad and starting at Tell Abu Hureyra, not very far to the North by 9,050BC. Cultivated figs were also dug up on the other side of Mount Hermon at Gilgal I, dated to 9,500-9,300 by Kislev et al not far from Kharsag / Eden. Perhaps the biggest problem with the Northern Theories are Dame Kathleen Kenyon's excavations of Jericho, which shows organised agriculture long before that date to the South of both Anatolia (Turkey) and Lebanon. Also of interest at Jericho is the 600 metre x 9 metre x 3 metre rock cut ditch radio-carbon dated prior to the current dating of agriculture. Tell Aswad also has revealed evidence of agriculture and was inhabited between c. 9,800-8,400 B.C.

    The Great Watercourse in Eden / Kharsag looks to have been approximately the same specification - 9 metres deep by 3 metres wide and extends over a mile, the sinkhole section is shown below. I have added another image, as if you look carefully, you can see a rock cut bridge extending over this section, with a groove alligned to Mount Hermon, from which I speculate hung a giant Cedar sluice (water control) gate.





    I've spent a lot of last year working on Wikipedia, figuring out where I stand academically on this. It's been a fierce battle with hardcore sceptics, armed with little peer reviewed material as ammunition. It has resulted in the creation of pages (often after massive heated debates you can read about in the discussions) on Kharsag, Christian O'Brien, George Aaron Barton and The Barton Cylinder - mankind's oldest "religious" story.

    There are various accounts of the Garden of Eden outside the Bible, including the Koran. The Nippur Tablets, including the Barton Cylinder are most important source documents describing the location of the Garden of Eden, and it's inhabitants, the first Sumerian Pantheon (An, Ninkharsag, Enlil & Enki). These were dug up in the foundations of the temple and library at Nippur by John Henry Haynes in 1898 and translated by George Aaron Barton. These are the oldest religious/story texts in the world, pre-dating the pyramid texts by at least half a century. O'Brien translated these stories as the founding of an agrarian community by people, rather than Gods in a time pre-dating "religion" as we know it.

    Another is the Slavonic Book of Enoch 2 produced around the 2nd century BC from materials with a much older tradition, discovered by Canon Charles and translated by his friend Dr Morfill, the Professor of Slavonic Studies at Oxford. It is from Morfill's work that we have the clearest accounts of the Garden of Eden. O’Brien added to Charles and Morfill’s translations.

    Also we have an Akkadian work, Atra-hasis, Tablet 1 which was copied by a scribe called Ku-aya, in the reign of Ammi-saduqa about 1635 B.C., from non-existant, earlier material. It is indicated that Ku-aya translated an earlier Sumerian tablet into Akkadian. Translations of the Akkadian text have been made by Lambert and Millard, two Oxford scholars following in the footsteps of Canon Charles. Atra-hasis tells the story of a rebellion of the workers building the Great Watercourse in The Garden of Eden and of them surrounding Enlil's Great House in a mob with tools raised. It then tells the story of the Annunaki council creating "salaried man" and causing a massive rift in our development from utalitarian to capitalist objectives as a race. From this we get various legends of "fallen angels" and another metaphor for the Agricultural Revolution.

    I'm looking to promote Eden / Kharsag and protect it for World Heritage, as I can see the benefits of archaeology catching up with religion and showing it's source as scientifically as possible.

    What you can do to help? Well, click on the links, do some reading and if you're interested and support the promotion of this knowledge. The Golden Age Project has some great information regarding The Kharsag Research Project. "The Genius of The Few" is the source book covering O'Brien's discovery of The Garden of Eden. If anyone can assist to get a review of that book into a major newspaper or peer reviewed journal - positive or negative - I can then go walkabout on Wikipedia again with a really big gun against the sceptics. If anyone wants the most amazing topic for a thesis, I cannot think of anything bigger than this. ;-)

    Also, if anyone wants to visit, I have the contacts to help arrange a visit to the area in comparative safety and comfort. Qualified archaeologists, or students to investigate the Rashaya Basin South, funding for pollen core analysis, radio-carbon dating and geo-physical surveys surveys is required, along with further peer reviewable material and the attention of UNESCO and the Lebanese Ministry of Culture.

    I like to imagine the time when that watercourse was flowing, the two great houses of life and knowledge were shining silver in the moonlight. Camp fires from the workers houses were dotted all around the slopes into the valley. People settling down for the first time and learning to cultivate plants and organise our race. When the ruins of the large irrigation system and dam we found were operational, it must have made it very lush and green back then with likely far more trees.

    Let me know if you have any questions, can offer any assistance or want more photos to examine.

    Further explanation in slide format

    My Blog


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    i rule, u serve dinner tahn1000's Avatar
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    people seriously underestimate the agricultural, social and technological achievement of the past, but i don't believe that was the original eden.
    "your god is not mine (john 8:37-40)"
    knowledge is wasted on the ignorant

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    Life is good Contributor Tired Old Man's Avatar
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    Let me see if I can understand this. What you showed was the garden of Eden ?
    Green Acres the is the place for me.........
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    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC's Avatar
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    Didn't the ruins of Zawi Chemi Shanidar represent the beginnings of Neolithic farming (11,900 years. At least with irrigation. And Iran has a similar area with Tabriz, a lush alpine valley full of ancient terraced cultivated fruit trees.

    And from what I have read, the edin" and its Akkadian equivalent edinu represents the flats or plain between the Tigris and Euphates.

    Most research of the "four heads" ( earliest mention of 4 distinct water sources) including the Hiddekel ( Tigris ) would place this Plaine or "Edinu" further east.

    One has to put a time frame on the term "modern man" and this represents 30,000 years of history when glacial ice had reduced sea levels by some 400 feet, placing what is now the Persian gulf as dry land, as well as changing the coast lines elsewhere on a current map. And this area was irrigated not only by the existing Tigris and Euphrates but also by the Gihon, the Pison. Which would refer to the term "the four heads" or 4 water sources.

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    Dead Meat paygan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tired Old Man View Post
    Let me see if I can understand this. What you showed was the garden of Eden ?
    Yeah, from a certain point of view. Everybody can have their own Eden in metaphorical terms though ;-)

    The name association with paradise and religion has also not helped serious scientists examine this seriously. To better understand why I keep referring to this location as "Kharsag" as well as "The Garden of Eden", I'm going to copy out the old Wikipedia page about some little known texts used to validate O'Brien's work - the Kharsag Epics here for you. The article was (marginally) deleted because they are not verifiable due to no peer reviews of the naming convention of the texts, despite my argument establishing them as notable (because notability is not temporal). The Barton Cylinder page on Wikipedia was created as a result, which I consider highly notable as it is man's earliest religious (=story) writing.

    The Kharsag Epics is the name given by geologist Christian O'Brien to a series of epic poems from Mesopotamia (ancient Iraq) and are among the earliest known works of literary writing. Some esoteric scholars believe that these texts originated as a series of legends and poems about the earliest mythological hero-gods including An, Enlil, Enki and Ninkharsag in a location called Kharsag.[1][2][3][4][5] The Epics are contained in Sumerian tablets recovered by Dr. John Henry Haynes during the University of Pennsylvania's excavations at Nippur in 1896-1898 and translated originally by George Aaron Barton.

    Several of the epics were translated in 1918 by professor of Semitic languages and the history of religion George Aaron Barton under the title "Miscellaneous Babylonian Inscriptions". They are dated considerably earlier than the Gudea Cylinders to at least the reign of Akkadian king Naram-Suen of Akkad (ca. 2190 – 2154 BC short chronology) and possibly as early as 2,500BC[8]. Barton originally dated them even earlier to 2704-2660BC according to Breasted's chronology.

    The first Kharsag Epic, as translated by Christian O'Brien begins "At Kharsag, where Heaven and Earth met, the Heavenly Assembly, the Great Sons of Anu, descended - the many Wise Ones"[9][10].

    The second Kharsag Epic, a reverse cut cuneiform cylinder, described by George Aaron Barton as "The oldest religious text from Babylonia" mentions Kharsag in the first line of the second verse - "The holy Tigris, the holy Euphrates, the holy sceptre of Enlil establish Kharsag"[11].

    The Sumerian text of tablet 8383 (as translated above) amounts to 268 lines of cuneiform though 19 columns of inscription. Of these 268 lines (as numbered for translation purposes) 226 are transcribed in whole or in part, with 42 obliterated lines unresolved. Christian O'Brien explained that there are actually 320 lines of inscription on this cylinder. A further analysis of all columns in the 1980s resolved some of the previous partial-line results and moved many more into translation[12].

    From columns I-VIII (1-, three hitherto uninterpreted addresses by Ninkharsag were now evident. From columns IX-XV (9-15) was information concerning Enlil's great house (the E-gal) at Kharsag. And, from columns XVI-XIX (16-19), were additional details concerning the 'sickness' with which Enlil and his brother Enki were stricken. By adding in the supplementary translations O'Brien brought the overall 320 lines to a point of 82.5% completion.

    The stories revolve around the arrival of the Annunaki on Mount Hermon, their decision to settle in a nearby plain and establish a head enclosure (O'Brien translates Kharsag literally as "head enclosure") with reservoir, irrigation channels and agricultural buildings. Christian O'Brien's translations generally favoured less supernatural explanations, suggesting the epics were an agrarian, historical record of events and the establishment of agriculture at a historical location[13]. His index of the tablets, and their Museum numbers are listed below[14][15][16]:
    Tablet one

    University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Museum Number 14,005

    The Arrival of the Anannage
    Tablet two

    University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Museum Number 8,383

    The Decision to Settle
    Tablet three

    University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Museum Number 9,205

    The Romance of Enlil and Ninlil
    Tablet four

    University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Museum Number 11,065

    The Planning of the Cultivation
    Tablet five

    University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Museum Number 8,322

    The Building of the Settlement
    Tablet six

    University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Museum Number 8,384

    The Great House of Enlil
    Tablet seven

    University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Museum Number 8,310

    The Cold Winter Storm
    Tablet eight

    University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Museum Number 8,317

    The Thousand Year Storm
    Tablet nine

    University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Museum Numbers 19,751, 2,204, 2,270 & 2,302

    The Final Destruction

    Kharsag is overwhelmed by flood water, destroying the dam, reservoir and disabling the great watercourse.

    # ^ Full text of "Miscellaneous Babylonian inscriptions" Miscellaneous Babylonian Inscriptions by George A. Barton, 1918, Yale University Press - Selection of O'Brien's included in this version


    # ^ Selection of Christian O'Brien's translations of the Epics[/I][/B]

    All this can go back on Wikipedia, just as soon as it gets a peer review, positive or negative, to become verifiable.

    To tie this to the Bible, you need to look into The Slavonic Book of Enoch. The author of the early chapters of the three-part book of Enoch, which are those with which we are primarily concerned, has been shown by Burkitt to have been a Jew who lived in northern Palestine, southwest of the Hermon Range, near to the headwaters of the Jordan River. This is the very area in which much of the action described here is stated to have taken place. We do not know the source of the original material but it can be said with some confidence that the Books of Enoch were produced around the second century B.C. from materials with a much older tradition. That Sumerian tablets did not have any part in this scenario can be assessed from the fact that they had been buried under the ravages of war for many centuries.

    Despite these apparent limitations, Dr. R. H. Charles placed a great deal of value on the teachings of the Books of Enoch, stating:

    Nearly all the writers of the New Testament were familiar with it, and were more or less influenced by it in thought and diction. It is quoted as a genuine production of Enoch by St. Jude, and as scripture by St. Barnabas. The authors of the Book of Jubilees, the Apocalypse of Baruch, 4 Ezra, laid it under contribution. With the earliest Fathers and Apologists it had all the weight of a canonical book. The citations of Enoch by the testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, and by the Book of Jubilees, show that at the close of the second century B.C., and during the first century B.C., this book was regarded in certain circles as inspired. When we come down to the first century A.D., we find it recognised as scripture by St. Jude.

    The main Book of Enoch contains an autobiographical account of the life of Enoch among the Elohim - in the area known as Eden which, as had already been suggested, can be identified from the text as the northwest corner of the Fertile Crescent, centred on Mount Hermon on the conjunctive borders of modern Lebanon, Syria and Israel.

    Enoch has much to do with the "Watchers", a large group of craftsmen-teachers who arrived in Eden as reinforcements for the third order of Elohim.

    Enoch VI:6 VB - And they were in all two hundred who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon...
    This translation is taken from the Greek, but the Ethiopic text confirms it: And they descended on Ardis which is the summit of Mount Hermon.

    Jared, the father of Enoch, was fifth in line of Patriarchs after Adam, and may have been born around 7,736 B.C.; the Watchers may have arrived about 7,570 B.C. - long after the original arrival in the Kharsag/Eden area by the original Annanage around 8,200 B.C

    Quote Originally Posted by TC
    Didn't the ruins of Zawi Chemi Shanidar represent the beginnings of Neolithic farming (11,900 years. At least with irrigation.
    Great reserach TC, you have some challenging knowledge! I hadn't heard the full name of Shanidar before in my reseach, nor of Yanik Tepe, Tabriz, so thank you for enlightening me. I hope in discussing this I won't sound argumentative.

    I studied Zami Chemi Shanidar quite thoroughly and in these matters you're best consulting the original archaeological reports, in this case of Ralph Solecki who presents Shanidar as a burial cave with no evidence of agriculture at 9,800-9,900 B.C. (11,800-11,900 B.P.)

    I also recently produced the Wikipedia page on Huto and Kamarband Caves, which has a domesticated dog bone from around this time, but the inhabitants were likely using it for Seal-Hunting, not farming, and a cave isn't a likely source for crop domestication. If this was the first recorded domesticated animal, then at least I got doggy-eden on Wikipedia!

    Quote Originally Posted by TC
    And Iran has a similar area with Tabriz, a lush alpine valley full of ancient terraced cultivated fruit trees.
    Now this is an interesting find and you're right it likely had fruit trees, but too late. Check out my link in the original post about cultivated figs at Gilgal I at 9,500-9,300 B.C., near Hermon. For Tabriz, I referred to C. A. Burney, 1961, Excavations at Yanik Tepe, Tabriz, north-west Iran. 23, 138–53 to reveal that the earliest layers date to the late 7th millennium B.C. and were comparable to the Hajji Firuz Phase. These represent some of the earliest permanent settlements in the region.

    The bio-archaeological evidence for the suitability of the Damascus to Red Sea rift valley for agriculture as against the Anatolian highlands, Zagros and Himalayas is very important. Flats and plains immediately after the Younger Dryas were not suitable for agriculture - like the Clovis People in the Americas, they started in the hills.

    The Rashaya Basin is a totally unique south facing site at around 3,000 feet - Hunza Valley must be twice this height and under the Great Younger Dryas ice field as was Lake Van at the early dates ! Snow melt ice dam breakage floods prevented early farming in both the Indus and Mesopotamian Valley's. There were not enough people until 5,500 BC to even begin to create the complex river based irrigation systems and great cities.

    The argument for placing Kharsag at the northwestern bend of the Fertile Crescent was based on the requirements for a) high mountains with a substantial, but seasonal, rainfall; b) isolated, inter-montane, alluvial plains or basins; c) deep, and narrow, ravines; and d) a climate capable of sustaining the ecology described.

    Look at all the items under Supporting Evidence (Kharsag Section) and have a look at the "Learning from History Part 10" as this should help on a number of key points particularly agricultural origins, with the head of the two rivers as the meeting place for the Divine Council (first Kharsag and later Baalbek - not Euphrates and Tigris -but the Orontes and Litanni), all the names for Mt Hermon, and the overall suitability of the site for snow melt irrigation for the first part of the year, and water storage for the remaining growing season. Winter storm water taken away when needed to the Wadi Nerab to avoid flooding problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by TC
    One has to put a time frame on the term "modern man" and this represents 30,000 years of history when glacial ice had reduced sea levels by some 400 feet, placing what is now the Persian gulf as dry land, as well as changing the coast lines elsewhere on a current map.
    The last long cold snap was around 10,800-9,500 B.C. in a glacial event called "The Younger Dryas" where temperatures got lower than they had been in the last 100,000 years. That, and events afterwards have significantly changed the maps and coastlines but it's at this time that agriculture becomes possible again and communities like Eden / Kharsag, Tell Aswad, Gilgal I and Jericho and start to form.

    Quote Originally Posted by TC
    And from what I have read, the edin" and its Akkadian equivalent edinu represents the flats or plain between the Tigris and Euphates.

    Most research of the "four heads" ( earliest mention of 4 distinct water sources) including the Hiddekel ( Tigris ) would place this Plaine or "Edinu" further east.

    And this area was irrigated not only by the existing Tigris and Euphrates but also by the Gihon, the Pison. Which would refer to the term "the four heads" or 4 water sources.
    So we're missing 2 rivers, whose names are bound to have changed over 11,000 years. If we agree that 2 of them are the Tigris and Euphrates then where are the Pison and Gihon. I'd probably suggest the Jordan and the Litani as the best candidates, although The Orontes towards the Zagros Mountains also fits.

    I wrote a page for Tell Aswad on Wikipedia last week and we're getting really close here if you want to study some of the earliest agriculture I've found...right next to Mount Hermon and Eden / Kharsag, between 9,800-8,400 B.C.

  6. #6
    ### of all Things Nuclear Ningishiddza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tired Old Man View Post
    Let me see if I can understand this. What you showed was the garden of Eden ?
    Green Acres the is the place for me.........
    Yes, he spams this shit on every forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by paygan
    I've spent a lot of last year working on Wikipedia, figuring out where I stand academically on this.
    Seriously, nobody really gives a flying fuck if you spent a lot of time on Wikipedia. You obviously have way too much time on your hands.

    Academically speaking, Academicians don't spam web-sites with their theories seeking the support of the masses.

    So, where you are academically, is nowhere.

    Speaking of academics, it is academically dishonest of you not tell these people that you have a serious personal agenda that you're trying to ram down everyone's throats, namely you hope you can destroy Judaism, Christianity and Islam by proving the Garden of Eden was not in Mesopotamia.

    That might actually back-fire and boomerang right back in your face.

    You're time (since you have so much of it) would be better spent looking for the 'J' and 'E' documents.
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