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Thread: Ignore Spirts? Why?

  1. #26
    Huh? Rabid1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahn1000 View Post

    you can correct me if i'm wrong, rabid.

    Wow where do I start? I can I can just stick to how wrong you are in this topic.

    Yes we were on the same team and all experienced the same thing, yet when reviewing evidence and discussing the night some people chose to make it more than it was for whatever reasons. What part of what was posted above makes it hard for you to understand that? If someone is either a liar, unreliable, or unstable why would you keep them investigating?

    The person who actually claimed to have seen an apparition was in a position making it impossible to have seen anything but the last few seconds of the glow, at best, and none of us was close enough to have seen ant more than a glow farther down a tunnel we could not get into. Not one person even really reacted to what we saw except it was interesting yet later it became a ghost and even a full apparition. That night not one person called it a ghost or even mentioned it after the fact.

    So what you are saying is it is better to investigate with people who make things up or see things that aren't there because it sounds better regardless of the truth of the situation.
    Mr. T made his van go twice the speed of light because he wanted to prove that quantum physics was a bunch of jibba jabba.

  2. #27
    i rule, u serve dinner tahn1000's Avatar
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    .... point proven. you deliberately excluded people who's eyewitness accounts were contrary to your own bias.
    "your god is not mine (john 8:37-40)"
    knowledge is wasted on the ignorant

  3. #28
    . Global Moderator Fut004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahn1000 View Post
    .... point proven. you deliberately excluded people who's eyewitness accounts were contrary to your own bias.
    Seriously you have some reading and/or comprehension issues. I'm not trying to be funny or anything, you have problems reading and understanding.

  4. #29
    Huh? Rabid1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahn1000 View Post
    .... point proven. you deliberately excluded people who's eyewitness accounts were contrary to your own bias.
    Or in the real world, instead of the Crazy Planet of the Tahns, we excluded people who made up stories after the fact because they are unreliable or crazy.

    If 7 people see a yellow dog walking down the road and they all agree it is yellow, then days later 2 of them claim to have seen a black dog and a 3rd claims the dog was being ridden by a leprechaun that means 3 people are lying or crazy not that their accounts were contrary.
    Mr. T made his van go twice the speed of light because he wanted to prove that quantum physics was a bunch of jibba jabba.

  5. #30
    . Global Moderator Fut004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabid1 View Post
    Or in the real world, instead of the Crazy Planet of the Tahns, we excluded people who made up stories after the fact because they are unreliable or crazy.
    Damn. I really, really wish I could fit that into my sig!!!

  6. #31
    Huh? Rabid1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fut004 View Post
    Damn. I really, really wish I could fit that into my sig!!!
    I just thought it was nicer than

    Mr. T made his van go twice the speed of light because he wanted to prove that quantum physics was a bunch of jibba jabba.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fut004 View Post
    I guess that means that all the different Gods from all the different human cultures on Earth are real too, right? I mean, they all wrote or spoke about them, and our Scientests can't prove they don't exist, so they have to be real. That's good logic.
    Actually, yes, when all those different cultures express a FAITH in their respective gods, we are WRONG to say that their gods are unreal.

    You heard it here.

    That's how wars are started, buddy. One culture disrespecting another.

    Science has NEVER proven the existence or the nonexistence of God. Science cannot speak on the subject of God, okay? The data is not there. By Science's own admission, when there is no evidence, then no judgment can be made one way or another.

    Let me ask you something... Do you think there are other, undiscovered species of animals and plants on this planet? Plants and animals that we have never seen and never sampled before. Are those creatures out there?

    If you're smart, you say, "Of course there are undiscovered lifeforms out there in Death Valley and deep in the Amazon and in the sulphurous lakes of Africa and at the bottom of the Marianas Trench and down there in the frigid South Polar Ocean."

    Good, you're at least reasonably intelligent. Now, Science has no data on those undiscovered lifeforms. Does that mean those critters do not EXIST until Science says so?

    That's absurd. Certainly those creatures exist and have existed for millions of years in their remote hidey-holes.

    Likewise, it's absurd to say that God (or gods) don't exist because Science has no data to prove the case one way or another.

    — Doc Velocity

  8. #33
    . Global Moderator Fut004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    Actually, yes, when all those different cultures express a FAITH in their respective gods, we are WRONG to say that their gods are unreal.

    Likewise, it's absurd to say that God (or gods) don't exist because Science has no data to prove the case one way or another.
    Just because you can't prove that something doesn't exist, it doesn't mean that it automatically does exist. That sort of failed logic means that you actually believe that the FSM is real.

    The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fut004 View Post
    Just because you can't prove that something doesn't exist, it doesn't mean that it automatically does exist. That sort of failed logic means that you actually believe that the FSM is real.
    No, see, you're the one backpedaling here. Theism was here first. It was THE government for thousands of years, it was THE explanation of the Universe for countless generations.

    Science, the scientific method, is a latecomer in the arena of human concepts. It wasn't bestowed upon us by an outside agency, with a guarantee of infallibility. Science was born of the same human brain that dreamed up Religion. Same source.

    So, it is the SCIENTIST'S burden to prove his case, okay.

    Theism knows that Theism works, and has worked WITHOUT POLLUTING THE PLANET OR OVERPOPULATING THE PLANET OR THREATENING THE PLANET WITH NUCLEAR ANNIHILATION for many thousands of years.

    Theism has a better, more Earth-friendly track record than Science, when it comes to the foundations of civilization.

    Science is like a fucking loose firehose, whipping around, killing people, destroying property and wreaking havoc when its stated objective was to simply douse the fire.

    Science has killed more fucking people than Religion EVER even DREAMED of killing.

    You wanna go back and do a body count of the Crusades or the Inquisition or the Witch Hunts? Perhaps hundreds of thousands, very low millions at most, I'm sure. Don't try to fucking quote death tolls from the Dark and Middle Ages at me the data isn't there.

    Fact is, there were not that many human beings on the face of the planet back then. So it had to be low millions, at most, COMBINED.

    Compare all the deaths attributed to Religion across recorded history to the deaths attributed to Science in just ONE CENTURY... The Twentieth Century.

    Hm. Goddamn. Science killed the FUCK out of Humanity in the 20th Century. War and Abortion and Fast Food must have claimed at least many hundreds of millions of lives in that century, don't you think?

    Abortion, by itself, took out 45 million in the USA in just 30 years.

    The 20th Century was a century of DEATH, of ERADICATION, even as Science was ballooning our population to uncontrollable numbers, injuring the planet, destroying the biosphere, irradiating the whole trembling globe.

    Science did that. Not God. Not Religion. Science.

    Religion has plodded along for thousands of years without destroying the planet. Science capped its ass in a hundred years.

    Now, what I'm saying here is this: Science is half-baked bullshit. You're not going to convince anybody that Science is better than God when Science is so horribly defective and corrosive and detrimental to humanity.

    Okay?

    Science is the worst thing that ever came out of our species. Ask Nature.

    So, don't try to use Science as some golden measure of our existence. Science is just modern day Alchemy, and it sucks. I'll keep my money on the sure bet, the earth-friendly, long-term return on investment provided by Theism.

    Doc Velocity

  10. #35
    . Global Moderator Fut004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    No, see, you're the one backpedaling here. Theism was here first. It was THE government for thousands of years, it was THE explanation of the Universe for countless generations.

    Blah blah blah
    I'll be completely honest. I didn't read more than three lines of your last comment, because I knew from the start that it was utter bullshit. You didn't address my comment at all. I guess you just didn't want to acknowledge the whole FSM thing because it completely ruins your entire argument. Right?

    I will say though, regarding your comment I quoted above, that "THE explanation of the Universe for countless generations" had the Earth as being flat, then in the middle of our solar system with everything revolving around it. I think SCIENCE has proven those ideas to be 100% bullshit (much like most of your comments).

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fut004 View Post
    I'll be completely honest. I didn't read more than three lines of your last comment, because I knew from the start that it was utter bullshit.
    And that's why you'll always be a shallow, insipid little malcontent, because you throw up your hands and give up like a coward.

    I philosophically pwned your ass.

    Doc Velocity

  12. #37
    . Global Moderator Fut004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    And that's why you'll always be a shallow, insipid little malcontent, because you throw up your hands and give up like a coward.

    I philosophically pwned your ass.
    Haha. Right.

    I'll read your whole response and respond to your comments, when you actually acknowledge what I wrote previously. See, you made a comment, I responded, then you used that as a spring board to go into some nonsensical rant. You completely ignored something relevant that I said, twice

    All you did was philosophically masterbate to your own delusional self-image.

  13. #38
    Karma police Zer0th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fut004 View Post
    THE explanation of the Universe for countless generations had the Earth as being flat
    This is in part a modern myth [ironic]... you might even say a flat earth view of flat earth views.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

  14. #39
    . Global Moderator Fut004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zer0th View Post
    This opinion is a semi-myth of the modern era... you might even say a flat earth view of flat earth views.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth
    Sorry, I was just trying to illustrate to Doc Douchebag that older explanations of how things work aren't correct just because they're older. If you notice, I also including that they thought everything revolved around the Earth, which I don't believe is a misconception of older ideas.

  15. #40
    Karma police Zer0th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fut004 View Post
    Sorry, I was just trying to illustrate to Doc Douchebag that older explanations of how things work aren't correct just because they're older. If you notice, I also including that they thought everything revolved around the Earth, which I don't believe is a misconception of older ideas.
    I wouldn't make anything of it myself. Heliocentrism was first proposed in the 3rd century BC, but there was no available evidential reason to accept that until the epicycles of the Ptolemaic system became unwieldy. I mean, it doesn't seem as though we're moving; if you didn't know that it's a vacuum out there, logic would suggest that the earth would be somewhat breezier than it is, if in motion.

  16. #41
    . Global Moderator Fut004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zer0th View Post
    I wouldn't make anything of it myself. Heliocentrism was first proposed in the 3rd century BC, but there was no available evidential reason to accept that until the epicycles of the Ptolemaic system became unwieldy. I mean, it doesn't seem as though we're moving; if you didn't know that it's a vacuum out there, logic would suggest that the earth would be somewhat breezier than it is, if in motion.
    Completely irrelevant to the point being made, but thanks for sharing.
    Last edited by Fut004; Jan 25th, 2011 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Editted for better wording... I think.

  17. #42
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    When you throw in abortion as evidence as science killing people over religion killing people or unknown animal species as an example of god possibly existing you go from discussion to plain fantasy bordering on the edge of the Twilight Zone.

    There is no comparison to a person choosing to terminate a pregnancy for whatever reasons and killing in the name of a god. It is not fanaticism that makes someone chose an abortion nor is their god telling them through his lackeys to do it.

    It would not be reasonably intelligent to compare god's existence to unknown animal species you would need the fossil, remains, or living specimen of another god first as the assumption of unknown species is based off the physical presence and evidence of existing species. This is like the lame example of "You can't see air but it is there!". It would be asinine to assume god exists based on this comparison
    Mr. T made his van go twice the speed of light because he wanted to prove that quantum physics was a bunch of jibba jabba.

  18. #43
    Karma police Zer0th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fut004 View Post
    Completely irrelevant to the point being made, but thanks for sharing.
    ..then I'll continue, LOL. I find the Renaissance-reheated battles between rabid scientistas and rabid religionistas amusing. Not least because in many ways, they're unknowingly so alike.

    Science is currently under-equipped to deal with higher metaphysical concerns such as why there is something rather than nothing... you're not even on the same battleground, mostly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabid1 View Post
    It would be asinine to assume god exists based on this comparison
    Except that God has made itself known to human beings throughout history. Or, shall we say, certain human beings developed the faculties to attain a "higher awareness," and thereby connected to God.

    Obviously you're not one of them, or you'd understand what I'm talking about.

    Doc Velocity

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zer0th View Post
    ..then I'll continue, LOL. I find the Renaissance-reheated battles between rabid scientistas and rabid religionistas amusing. Not least because in many ways, they're unknowingly so alike.

    Science is currently under-equipped to deal with higher metaphysical concerns such as why there is something rather than nothing... you're not even on the same battleground, mostly.
    LOL... Exactly. Science is down there at the foot of the mountain, busily categorizing grains of sand, while the Faithful are at the summit of the mountain, viewing a panorama that Science can't even begin to grasp.

    Doc Velocity

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    Except that God has made itself known to human beings throughout history. Or, shall we say, certain human beings developed the faculties to attain a "higher awareness," and thereby connected to God.

    Obviously you're not one of them, or you'd understand what I'm talking about.

    Doc Velocity
    Except these are just stories, again no proof. If this were used as a basis of existence, then fairies, trolls, dragons have and do exist as described, not by misinterpretation or misidentification.
    Mr. T made his van go twice the speed of light because he wanted to prove that quantum physics was a bunch of jibba jabba.

  22. #47
    . Global Moderator Fut004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabid1 View Post
    Except these are just stories, again no proof. If this were used as a basis of existence, then fairies, trolls, dragons have and do exist as described, not by misinterpretation or misidentification.
    Basically what I was getting at by bringing up the FSM, but Cap'n Douchebag just ignores everything that shows that he's pulling things out of his ass (his inflamed, gaping ass)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabid1 View Post
    Except these are just stories, again no proof. If this were used as a basis of existence, then fairies, trolls, dragons have and do exist as described, not by misinterpretation or misidentification.
    Why not? Because Science tells you none of that shit exists? You're a captive of a dogmatic, tedious method of thinking. To you, 99.999999% of existence doesn't exist because Science can't touch it.

    — Doc Velocity

  24. #49
    Huh? Rabid1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    Why not? Because Science tells you none of that shit exists? You're a captive of a dogmatic, tedious method of thinking. To you, 99.999999% of existence doesn't exist because Science can't touch it.

    Doc Velocity

    You make a valiant effort at spin but really not that good over all. Science does not tell me what to think, nor am I so weak minded as to take the bible as the actual word of god or proof of his existence. The fact you claim god exists solely based on stories points to your dogmatic and tedious thinking, not mine.
    Mr. T made his van go twice the speed of light because he wanted to prove that quantum physics was a bunch of jibba jabba.

  25. #50
    Radioactive Serious Member Bearclaw's Avatar
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    Some interesting viewpoints posted on this ghosty thread.

    Most Native folks (indigenous peoples all over the world) know, understand
    and do not question the validity of Spirits with the need for Evidence, or
    scientific studies to prove/disprove their reality.
    For instance, many of us are given the "gift" of either just feeling their
    presence, hearing their activities/antics, and some are given the "gifts" of
    the before mentioned plus being able to visually see them with their eyes
    clearly. We don't get weirded out about it, or feel the need to go grab some
    "ghost buster's techy tools" in order to find the EVIDENCE in order to prove
    it did/is happening.
    Just because many "un-sensitive's" don't believe in this seperate reality as
    being real, does not mean it does not exist in any way,shape or form.
    Several family members in our Clan have the "gift" given of hearing, feeling
    and seeing their activities. We show them respect and honor their sharing's
    whenever something may occur.
    But, this type of belief system and way of approaching people with gifts
    is quite ancient.
    Some of our Clan folks experience their "gifts" starting as little children.
    They are not shunned, or made fun of. Their gifts are embraced and tales
    shared by them listened to with respect.
    One man has seen people "ghosts" as if they are in 3-d shape, and in
    technicolor since a child.
    A number of years ago he picked up 2 hitchhiker gentlemen on the back roads at night. They also were Indian dudes. He had pity on them as they
    looked cold and ragged that Winter nite. One of them climbed in the back
    seat, and the other hitchhiker sat in the front seat next to our cousin who was driving. The cousin thought they needed some refreshment and handed
    them both a Pepsea cola. As soon as they grabbed the pop, Cuz said:
    "Their hands turned into skeleton bones, and the jumped through the window of the car that was going 50mph." Nobody laughs, or questions any of his
    true-life experiences, or others that share on that level. We listen, and
    maybe smile as we add some other stories in this vein.
    By the way, FYI: the word Spirits can apply to not only people, and pets that have passed over to the other side, but "little people", reptiles, wild
    Snakes, Birds, Rocks, wild Animals, Sea creatures, Sasquatch etc.
    Unenlightened humanoids can not grasp the reality of this parallel universe, that has always been here, and always will exist. We choose not to argue
    with folks that feel the need "for proof/evidence". Only reaction is usually
    to just walk away and let them believe in their own simple, one dimensional
    way of thinking.
    Programmed in their box like thinking, and troubled,or fearful if holes are
    poked into their "safe box" of existence. Ahoh.

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