View Poll Results: What do you believe the intentions of alien visitors would be?

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  • They would have peaceful intentions

    6 12.00%
  • They would have neutral intentions

    14 28.00%
  • They would be hostile

    17 34.00%
  • Other. Please explain

    13 26.00%
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Thread: Aliens: Peaceful, Neutral, Hostile?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater View Post
    The laws of physics cannot be changed.
    You don't have to "change" the laws of physics. Simply ignore them and they will go away. The laws of physics were invented by Man, and are therefore as fallible as everything else in the world of Man, including Religion and Science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater View Post
    - how do you deal with friction from space debris, a force on your craft that is proportional to the velocity that you move?
    Simple. Stop thinking of four-dimensional space travel as your only means of moving about the Universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater View Post
    - how do you deal with the fact that the faster an object is accelerated, the amount of energy required to move it faster increases with each increase in velocity the object makes
    That's bullshit. No energy output is required to travel from one side of the fucking Universe to the other. The logical solution is to step outside of four-dimensional Space-Time and simply allow the other side of the Universe to come to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater View Post
    - how do store the vast amount of energy required to travel long distances quickly?
    Again, you're living in some kind of Newtonian box that prohibits your free thinking. No energy output is required. Quite the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater View Post
    - how do you store supplies needed for long term survival away from resource centers like the original planet?
    Easy. Don't send passengers who require food, water or air for survival.

    — Doc Velocity

  2. #102
    i rule, u serve dinner tahn1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    You don't have to "change" the laws of physics. Simply ignore them and they will go away. The laws of physics were invented by Man, and are therefore as fallible as everything else in the world of Man, including Religion and Science.


    Simple. Stop thinking of four-dimensional space travel as your only means of moving about the Universe.


    That's bullshit. No energy output is required to travel from one side of the fucking Universe to the other. The logical solution is to step outside of four-dimensional Space-Time and simply allow the other side of the Universe to come to you.
    first any "law" of physics is consistent under all circumstance or it cannot be called a "law" in the first place. secondly you're dreaming if you think anyone - much less you - can travel from one side of the universe to the other without expending energy. stand still and NOTHING comes to you. in fact you CAN'T STAND STILL. the universe is always moving outwards from it's center and the only way to truly "stand still" is to calculate exactly the right velocity and head directly towards the center. obviously energy will have to be expended just to manage that.

    as for the space-time rubbish, time travel isn't possible.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahn1000 View Post
    you're dreaming if you think anyone - much less you - can travel from one side of the universe to the other without expending energy.
    What do you think of nonlocal simultaneity? Do you know what that is? It's a little novelty from the world of Quantum Physics, suggestive of the possibility of transmitting information instantaneously anywhere in the Universe. Now, if a particle on this end of the Universe can instantaneously resonate with a particle on the other side of the Universe, or even anticipate resonance with that particle, then we know there are avenues of information exchange that leave Einstein's light speed limit in the dust.

    We're talking about instantaneous sympathetic resonance across impossible distances, and without expending a year's Solar energy output. It could be as easy as opening a door and stepping through to the opposite end of the Universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by tahn1000 View Post
    stand still and NOTHING comes to you. in fact you CAN'T STAND STILL. the universe is always moving outwards from it's center and the only way to truly "stand still" is to calculate exactly the right velocity and head directly towards the center. obviously energy will have to be expended just to manage that.
    I've written pretty extensively on stepping outside of the four-dimensional Universe. Yeah, it entails creating a bubble that defies all known laws of this Universe (like your own personal mini-Universe with its own Arrow of Time). Only then could you conceivably "stand still" as the Universe moved past you.

    Quote Originally Posted by tahn1000 View Post
    as for the space-time rubbish, time travel isn't possible.
    Take it up with Einstein.

    ó Doc Velocity

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    What do you think of nonlocal simultaneity? Do you know what that is? It's a little novelty from the world of Quantum Physics, suggestive of the possibility of transmitting information instantaneously anywhere in the Universe. Now, if a particle on this end of the Universe can instantaneously resonate with a particle on the other side of the Universe, or even anticipate resonance with that particle, then we know there are avenues of information exchange that leave Einstein's light speed limit in the dust.
    have i heard of it?? i couldn't even google a definition for it. but that's a pretty big IF, isn't it. you're carrying on as if it was established fact.

    as for einstein, he never said time travel was possible. so i don't have anything to 'take up' with him.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahn1000 View Post
    have i heard of it?? i couldn't even google a definition for it. but that's a pretty big IF, isn't it. you're carrying on as if it was established fact.
    Actually, as a technological species, we're already dabbling in the goddamned thing on a measurable level.
    Helloooo

    For your amusement and edification, consider the following:

    Quantum Teleportation Achieved Over Ten Miles Of Free Space

    I discussed this topic over at ATS

    Quote Originally Posted by tahn1000 View Post
    as for einstein, he never said time travel was possible. so i don't have anything to 'take up' with him.
    I want to sincerely apologize to you because I didn't realize you were a brain-damaged fucktard. Son, Einstein established in his Special Relativity that Space and Time are one fabric. As you travel in Space, so you travel in Time.

    Einstein never said time travel was impossible. We obviously travel through time. As we accelerate through Space, we can observe Time dilation. It's been done. We know it happens. People who go very fast stop aging. Et cetera.

    What Einstein DID say was that going backwards in time was impossible. But Einstein said a lot of stuff that we now know is bullshit. Like, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. Hm.

    Refer back to the link above, let me know if it makes any sense to you.

    — Doc Velocity

  6. #106
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    Actually, as a technological species, we're already dabbling in the goddamned thing on a measurable level.
    Helloooo

    For your amusement and edification, consider the following:

    Quantum Teleportation Achieved Over Ten Miles Of Free Space

    I discussed this topic over at ATS


    I want to sincerely apologize to you because I didn't realize you were a brain-damaged fucktard. Son, Einstein established in his Special Relativity that Space and Time are one fabric. As you travel in Space, so you travel in Time.

    Einstein never said time travel was impossible. We obviously travel through time. As we accelerate through Space, we can observe Time dilation. It's been done. We know it happens. People who go very fast stop aging. Et cetera.

    What Einstein DID say was that going backwards in time was impossible. But Einstein said a lot of stuff that we now know is bullshit. Like, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. Hm.

    Refer back to the link above, let me know if it makes any sense to you.

    ó Doc Velocity
    no i'm not going to apologise, because you know what? all einstein said was that time was relative to the motion of the objects observes. it's idiots like you that went "WOW, THAT'S TIME TRAVEL!"

    as for transmat, dickwad, "quantum teleporting" doesn't acually happen over "free space". it requires a CABLE or some other means of established communication medium, like a RADIO FREQUENCY.

    Quantum teleportation, or entanglement-assisted teleportation, is a technique used to transfer quantum information from one quantum system to another. It does not transport the system itself, nor does it allow communication of information at superluminal (faster than light) speed. Neither does it concern rearranging the particles of a macroscopic object to copy the form of another object. Its distinguishing feature is that it can transmit the information present in a quantum superposition, useful for quantum communication and computation.
    More precisely, quantum teleportation is a quantum protocol by which a qubit a (the basic unit of quantum information) can be transmitted exactly (in principle) from one location to another. The prerequisites are a conventional communication channel capable of transmitting two classical bits (i.e. one of four states), and an entangled Bell pair (b,c) of qubits, with b at the origin and c at the destination. (So whereas b and c are intimately related, a is entirely independent of them other than being initially colocated with b.) The protocol has three steps: measure a and b jointly to yield two classical bits; transmit the two bits to the other end of the channel (the only potentially time-consuming step, due to speed-of-light considerations); and use the two bits to select one of four ways of recovering c. The upshot of this protocol is to permute the original arrangement ((a,b),c) to ((b′,c′),a), that is, a moves to where c was and the previously separated qubits of the Bell pair turn into a new Bell pair (b′,c′) at the origin.
    It has been experimentally shown to work over distances of up to 16 kilometers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation

    and basically all they're doing is hypothesizing how these mediums work. and guess what - IT ACTUALLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TELEPORTATION, just the transmission of data.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fut004 View Post
    It's not erroneous to assume that, because as we've said above, all of this is speculation. I can just as easily say that it's erroneous to assume that extraterrestrials don't hear within the same frequency range as humans do.

    The fact is that nobody knows what's going on out there, if anything at all. So don't come off as all high and mighty with "the only right answers" to any of this.

    It's a good thing you're here then, eh?
    Yes, indeed. Look how I opened up your mind to new possibilities that you never before would have considered.

    I never said my answers were "the right answers". I only implied that it was necessary to apply logic and reason, which was previously absent in this discussion until I opened up the door.

    It is obtuse to claim to "speculate," and then limit and crow-bar all speculation about extra-terrestrial life forms into nothing more than an "advanced Earth-human" with all the limitations and weaknesses of Earth-humans. That is absurd.

    You should consider the possibility that other Earth-like Planets are not like Earth. They may have only one continent, and not seven. The implication of that is that there is only one race or ethnic group. The implication of that is that they have one language and culture. And the implication of that is that they are free of the impediments that restrict us here on Earth.

    Perhaps you have forgotten or didn't know that we are 1,000 years behind in development thanks to the Imperial Roman Catholic Church and its insane policy of murdering anyone who proposed ideas like "the Earth revolves around the Sun and not the Sun orbits the Earth," or that "diseases are not caused by colored gases."

    You should consider how the mass of a planet increases its gravity, and how that gravity could affect the development, shape and form of appendages and trunk/torso.

    You should consider that increased gravity will result in the planet retaining more gases in the upper atmosphere, especially Noble Gases. You should consider how those gases in the atmosphere might filter light from a star, and how that could impact skin pigmentation, not only of them but of plants and other animals.

    I can see why a civilization that still can't find an alternative to the gasoline/diesel combustion engine would also believe it is impossible to communicate without using the EM spectrum.

    In any event, they could be using the EM Spectrum, it's just that they're using photons. It isn't my fault you haven't learned how to do that yet.

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  9. #109
    Don't get comfortable. Contributor Goldmoon's Avatar
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    I've been posting original thoughts here for the past 3 years! lol

    Ningshizzda, how could you would say such things! Its time for a spanking

    By the way, watch the video! :P

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  10. #110
    Cart-mod 2.0 Global Moderator Cartesiantheater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    You don't have to "change" the laws of physics. Simply ignore them and they will go away. The laws of physics were invented by Man, and are therefore as fallible as everything else in the world of Man, including Religion and Science.
    The laws of physics were discovered by men, not invented. A "law" in the scientific sense is an observed relation. An example of a law of physics: if something falls on earth, it's velocity increases at a rate of g. That is an observed reality. Sure, the math that describes it is man-made, but the law is a feature of reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    Simple. Stop thinking of four-dimensional space travel as your only means of moving about the Universe.
    How do you get rich? Simple. Stop thinking that you can't just pull money out of your ass.


    The problem with your solution is that it ISN'T so simple- there isn't any physical evidence whatsoever that things like "wormholes" even exist, let alone that it's possible to travel through them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    That's bullshit.
    No, it isn't. It's observed reality. But you're not talking about that fact, you're saying it is unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post

    No energy output is required to travel from one side of the fucking Universe to the other. The logical solution is to step outside of four-dimensional Space-Time and simply allow the other side of the Universe to come to you.

    Except there isn't a shred of evidence that that is even possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post
    Again, you're living in some kind of Newtonian box that prohibits your free thinking. No energy output is required. Quite the opposite.
    Just because you can creatively come up with something doesn't mean it has anything to do with reality.

    What I posted, however, absolutely does.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Velocity View Post


    Easy. Don't send passengers who require food, water or air for survival.

    — Doc Velocity
    They still would require some sort of energy to operate (of course, not all of it necessarily has to go with the vessel).










    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    That is the way you do it, some call it phase changes.

    You have to remember that Carts education has trained him to not look into specific boxes but he is not consciously aware of of it.
    Lol, no it's just a personal preference of mine to only discuss things that either are shown to be possible or are very likely possible in conversations regarding space travel and the like.

    Just because you can CONCEIVE of something doesn't mean it can be done, or that it exists in physical reality.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartesiantheater View Post
    Lol, no it's just a personal preference of mine to only discuss things that either are shown to be possible or are very likely possible in conversations regarding space travel and the like.

    Just because you can CONCEIVE of something doesn't mean it can be done, or that it exists in physical reality.
    Coming from someone that promotes the idea of evolution that sounds absurd.

    The only things that science has discovered and quantified is the blatantly obvious, there are still more energy forms and natural laws out there that we are only starting to think about. Just because we have not worked out how to convert matter to energy and back again in a controlled manner it does not mean that it can't be done.

    The Philadelphia experiment is an example of where we stumbled on this but lacked the means to control it properly. For a sailor to reconstitute in a bulkhead shows its possible.

    Its just your own controlled education that has placed you in the confines of a box that limits your abilities to look further.
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  12. #112
    Cart-mod 2.0 Global Moderator Cartesiantheater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Coming from someone that promotes the idea of evolution that sounds absurd.
    Evolution is observed fact, on numerous levels, from the lab, to the fossil record, to the genetic record.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    The only things that science has discovered and quantified is the blatantly obvious, there are still more energy forms and natural laws out there that we are only starting to think about. Just because we have not worked out how to convert matter to energy and back again in a controlled manner it does not mean that it can't be done.
    We have already worked out how to convert energy into matter and matter into energy.

    We convert energy to matter in high speed collisions with tiny particles (where energy is converted into relativistic mass) and when in situations like the creation of an electron-positron pair, and we convert matter to energy in nuclear weapons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post

    The Philadelphia experiment is an example of where we stumbled on this but lacked the means to control it properly. For a sailor to reconstitute in a bulkhead shows its possible.

    Its just your own controlled education that has placed you in the confines of a box that limits your abilities to look further.
    I usually favor looking as far as the evidence permits.
    "I was put on trial twice near Y2K for acting like Jesus and claiming to be the Messiah. Its not everyday that a man parks a Chariot of Fire in front of a tomb and stands against the US government with a bow and razor tipped arrows over his shoulder. I wore a suit of armor and was protected by an invisible bubble and my sharp tongue was more than the judicial system could handle."Jake
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  13. #113
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    Evolution is observed fact, on numerous levels, from the lab, to the fossil record, to the genetic record.
    I'm wondering why humans have 2 less chromosomes than chimpanzees and other apes...

    In evolutionary theory, a lifeform gains chromosomes as the it evolves.

    There is something about humans that doesn't fit to this planet.

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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ningishiddza View Post
    Yes, indeed. Look how I opened up your mind to new possibilities that you never before would have considered.

    I never said my answers were "the right answers". I only implied that it was necessary to apply logic and reason, which was previously absent in this discussion until I opened up the door.

    It is obtuse to claim to "speculate," and then limit and crow-bar all speculation about extra-terrestrial life forms into nothing more than an "advanced Earth-human" with all the limitations and weaknesses of Earth-humans. That is absurd.
    You obviously haven't read my other posts regarding Aliens. I quite often tell people not to put limits on what they believe Aliens can be like, or what Aliens can do.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon View Post
    I'm wondering why humans have 2 less chromosomes than chimpanzees and other apes...

    In evolutionary theory, a lifeform gains chromosomes as the it evolves.

    There is something about humans that doesn't fit to this planet.
    The irony is that humans have a chromosome pair that looks exactly like two of those chimp chromosomes fused together.

    http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/5045.aspx

    Discussed with pretty pictures in this vid. About 3.5 minutes.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk#t=0m35s
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  16. #116
    i rule, u serve dinner tahn1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Coming from someone that promotes the idea of evolution that sounds absurd.

    The only things that science has discovered and quantified is the blatantly obvious, there are still more energy forms and natural laws out there that we are only starting to think about. Just because we have not worked out how to convert matter to energy and back again in a controlled manner it does not mean that it can't be done.

    The Philadelphia experiment is an example of where we stumbled on this but lacked the means to control it properly. For a sailor to reconstitute in a bulkhead shows its possible.

    Its just your own controlled education that has placed you in the confines of a box that limits your abilities to look further.
    the philadeophia experiment is not an example of the laws of physics being "broken", but of an experiment being performed using a technology in hazardous conditions. they already knew what the consequences of lead interacting with organic matter in warp state. and in typical fashion, the us military didn't care. they just wanted to see if they could do it.
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fut004 View Post
    You obviously haven't read my other posts regarding Aliens. I quite often tell people not to put limits on what they believe Aliens can be like, or what Aliens can do.
    Okay, so we're in agreement that extra-terrestrial humanoids are not Earthlings dressed like Barry Manilow.

    Just like the Soviets/Russians, the US type-classified extra-terrestrial space craft based on design and [assumed] method of propulsion. Close proximity to certain types of space craft interferes with avionics and all EM-based systems.

    If extra-terrestrial spacecraft are using EM as a means of propulsion, then it would require a large amount of energy and that's probably why they don't communicate using radio waves. If it interferes with our communication, radar and missile systems, it would interfere with theirs as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon
    There is something about humans that doesn't fit to this planet.
    No kidding. Humans don't fit evolution either. This planet should still be dominated by homo habilis and homo erectus, or perhaps some other one-brained hominid.
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    That was enlighting and entertaining. Thank you folks. A plethora of ideas for anyone to ponder. And I will.

    I have grown to believe that literally anything is possible. Anything. That means inside our known laws and outside. The total sum of all human knowledge is doubling every year and soon it will be every month and then every day. How could anyone assume anything with any hope of drawing even the simpliest of conclsuions within that reality?

    I believe our greatest gift(among many) is our imaginations. I would presume that anything a person imagined 1000 years ago is a reality is some form or another today. I mean if that person somehow stood in the middle ot times square for even a moment he/she would fall to their knees in utter mental/emotional overload. Even 100 years ago the imaginations of men would find the realities of today satisfying amd bewildering.

    I try not to assume much. Neuton taught me that as did many other great minds. I believe that whatever I can imagine is real,, somewhere. My imagination in reality is like an ants is to my reality. I can't simply imagine what is real. My mind is simply to small. But it is growing. It grows with conversations like this one and thousands of others I have read and tried to learn and imagine from.

    I believe it is arrogant to state anything as fact. Even death,,,at the risk of being drawn into a religious box of fear driven assumtions clouded as fact. Every conclusion I have ever mistakenly drawn in my life has been proved wrong. Often almost as soon as I drew it. My life now has become one of imagining. One of discovery. One of seeing the joy of Santa Claus be replaced with the excitement of ones own humanity and then finding Santa Claus again.

    I would hope that our aliens, all of them that I have imagined and have been imagined here and in every sci fi book in the world have a similar approach to understanding. That it expands like our universe,,infinitely. There is pain and joy in all living things for nothing is free,,even energy pays a price for its conversion.

    At the risk of sounding conclusive,,,I believe that there are diiferent forms of life in the universe,,an infinite variety and I believe some have passed our way. I believe our imaginations will someday leap off the reality of meeting a variety or two of them and think of even more inconcievable realites. It is like the horizon, I believe. It is always in front of us if we choose to look that way. It is behind us too......

    Thank you for the moments of thought.

    Lenny

  19. #119
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    Great discussion..
    I've personally always thought it could come down to two different types of being: 1) All of the above. alien life would be just like human, and be filled with just and unjust, moral and immoral, or best described as "good" and "bad" ..

    and

    2) So scientifically advanced that they have lost the need to believe in a higher power or life form, and so much so that they always have no traits of goodness but instead "watch" and allow things to occur.. they would not intervene in times of bad.. they would not celebrate in times of good. Instead they would just watch... and perceive. And know.

  20. #120
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    You're assuming aliens even care enough to be any of the above at all.
    Last edited by James Random; Dec 20th, 2010 at 7:13 PM.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Random View Post
    You're assuming aliens even care enough to be any of the above at all.
    It is all assumption since there is no real evidence or proof alien life existing beyond simple cells or organisms. Mathematical probability is all we really have to go one for now.
    Mr. T made his van go twice the speed of light because he wanted to prove that quantum physics was a bunch of jibba jabba.

  22. #122
    ### of all Things Nuclear Ningishiddza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabid1 View Post
    It is all assumption since there is no real evidence ....
    You mean no real evidence that you're aware of.

    Some of the jet-jocks and ground radar crews in the air forces of various countries would have a vastly different outlook.
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  23. #123
    Huh? Rabid1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ningishiddza View Post
    You mean no real evidence that you're aware of.

    Some of the jet-jocks and ground radar crews in the air forces of various countries would have a vastly different outlook.
    That is what I meant by real evidence. We have radar hits, photo's. and eyewitness accounts which of those relatively few remain unexplained. We have no real physical evidence and any claims to such are just stories.

    What we need is a more transparent world government policy over the information that is out there. We are way beyond the stage of "society will collapse if we tell" and what threat to national security is there really if we don't even know what they are.
    Mr. T made his van go twice the speed of light because he wanted to prove that quantum physics was a bunch of jibba jabba.

  24. #124
    i rule, u serve dinner tahn1000's Avatar
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    nothing short of a ufo falling on his house would convince rabid1, and then only with a signed affidavit by three non-human races with dna samples for confirmation.

    and even then - he still wouldn't believe, but at least he could put in an insurance claim.
    "your god is not mine (john 8:37-40)"
    knowledge is wasted on the ignorant

  25. #125
    Huh? Rabid1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahn1000 View Post
    nothing short of a ufo falling on his house would convince rabid1, and then only with a signed affidavit by three non-human races with dna samples for confirmation.

    and even then - he still wouldn't believe, but at least he could put in an insurance claim.

    Lol when have I ever said I don't believe in UFOs or aliens? I am just not as stupid as some people to claim them as fact when they have no proof whatsoever. UFOs are just that, unidentified flying objects, nothing more has ever been proven to determine exactly what they are or if they are intelligently piloted remotely or otherwise. Ignorant people tend to get ideas and hang onto them as gospel without any basis in reality and in the end it limits any chance they have at further knowledge.


    Gullible isn't something to be proud of.
    Mr. T made his van go twice the speed of light because he wanted to prove that quantum physics was a bunch of jibba jabba.

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