The Jewish leaders surrounded him and asked, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.
”Jesus replied, “I told you and you do not believe. The deeds I do in my Father’s name testify about me.
But you refuse to believe because you are not my sheep.
My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand
Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will be set aside; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be set aside. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known.
And now these three remain:
love. But the greatest of these is love
59: To another he said, "Follow me." But he said, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father."
60: But he said to him, "Leave the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God."
61: Another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but let me first say farewell to those at my home."
62: Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."
God did NOT give us his message through Jesus. Jesus was just the name of the flesh that God used to reveal his knowledge. It was for his own benefit, not the benefit of man. He used Jesus to hear and read prophecies so God could interpret them. He used Jesus to preach the gospel, which is the voice of God. This gospel is needed for the chosen ones to hear God and begin the process of making them sinless saints. It can take many years for a chosen one to become sinless but only according to God's plans.
None of the disciples understand the truth of the gospel because they were sinners at the time. It was the Romans who rewrote the writings of the saints to make their new testament so the words in them cannot be trusted. Only God can interpret them and find all the lies that the Romans and Christians added to them. The scriptures were translated from corrupt languages into corrupt languages by corrupt flesh of man. In no way can you take the words in the new and old testament literally. If you do, you will be lying to yourself and everyone you teach those lies to.
The Christian Jesus is a false god because they don't understand who he was. Their view of him is nothing but a big lie. For one thing, no one knows his real name or any of the other names in the Bible. English translators just made them up with the best of their literal knowledge. So that alone is enough reason for sinners to not read the Bible. The biggest reason they shouldn't interpret the scriptures is because they don't have the knowledge of God, which is the truth. A sinner is a liar so everything that comes out of the sinner is a lie.
You people in here think you know something because you read words in a book that were written by translators who had no knowledge of God. The Romans killed all the saints before they started Christianity so the last saint they killed was the last person on earth that God used to reveal his knowledge with.
After 1600+ years, he got my body ready to reveal his knowledge so he could interpret the prophecies to end this age. I'm not here to find more chosen ones to make sinless saints with. As soon as my body is killed, I'm free from it and will never be in a corrupt body again. Jesus was born sinless because he was the first man that God used to reveal his knowledge. He was also the sacrifice for the sins of the world, which made it possible to make us sinless saints.
You're barking up the wrong tree because this tree is going to fall and kill you soon.
By falsifying the new testament, they guaranteed than no one else would become sinless saints who preach the true gospel, which is the voice of God. They started the false religion of Christianity that's full of pagan deception to stop the gospel that changed the flesh of the chosen ones to make them saints.
No sinner can trust the words in the new testament without having the knowledge of God to know what pagan lies were added to them. Christians were taught the pagan lies because no one had the knowledge of God to teach them the truth. This means that every single Christian since the saints were killed have been deceived by the Bible and by the leaders who teach them pagan lies.
I do have the knowledge of God and he hasn't guided me to very many scriptures of the new testament. When I do use them, I always color the letters that God can inspire from his knowledge. The rest of it isn't necessary because they either contain lies or they're repetitive and it's a waste of time to read them.
Christians have many different views of Jesus because they believe in the lies of the new testament. They can't understand the old testament prophecies at all so when they use them, they're always lying with their own interpretations. Like I said many times in this forum, only God can interpret the prophecies. Sinners are not equipped to do this so they find their own god by believing their own lies or the lies of their leaders.
If you listen to the gospel I preach, you're guaranteed to hear the same truth that Jesus spoke 2,000 years ago. We won't use the same words in our stories but the same truth will come out of those words. The truth isn't something you can see or hear if you don't have God's knowledge.
The old testament is angry. The new one is fun. The real one has probably been edited highly by Church officials over the centuries.. And we are left with an incomplete story but yet a highly angry debate no matter who speaks.
I still don't know why God wants to remain a mystery to so many... The majority of the population on the earth is not Christian after all..........
they're both a pack of lies wrapped around a glimmer of truth.
Would you share what you think this glimmer of truth is?
'A faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth any regrets'.-Arthur C. Clarke.
'Time wounds all heels'-John Lennon.
since you can't accept that the four testaments point to the INNOCENCE of judas and that PETER was the betrayer (not simon peter but PETER), and that the saducees were wholly responsible for the arrest and murder of christ - is there any point in me sharing more with you?
So it was the jealousy of the Jews that convinced the Romans to kill all the saints until the gospel could no longer be preached. This ended in the early fourth century and this is the time when the Roman leader, Constantine, was given the job of deceiving the followers of the saints. No one understood the saints because the gospel was the truth but they knew these followers eventually became saints who preached the gospel, too. This is why they had to deceive them with a false gospels, church buildings, idols. and a new testament. This is when the first pope and Roman Catholic church began to make sure these followers or any other sinner couldn't become sinless saints and preach the gospel.
They didn't have to change every word in the writings they confiscated from the saints. They had to make sure the true gospel couldn't be understood so they removed any testimonies about that. By adding their pagan ideas such as communion, water baptism, bodily resurrections, angels, tithes and offerings, church organization, forgiveness of sins before the flesh sacrifice, pentecost, sinful saints, gifts of the spirit, virgin birth, etc., they were able to make their new Christians focus on these things instead of something they couldn't understand, such as the love of God. No sinner understands the love of God because they apply it to the emotions of their flesh instead of the knowledge of God that removes all fear.
“Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul” (Ezekiel 3:17-19, KJV).
“Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32; see also Luke 12:8, Romans 10:9, and 1 John 4:15).
If Christians feel they have found the truth and their lives have been enriched thereby, there is nothing wrong with them sharing their experiences. In fact, I would expect them to react this way. Certainly, if I found something that changed my life for the better I would want others to know about it. And if I were genuinely convinced that those who did not believe in Christ were going to hell, I would do my very best to prevent this from happening; hell, I'd be preaching from the rooftops. After all, what kind of sadist would allow his friends and neighbors to be sentenced to eternal torment?
For the record I am not a Bible believing Christian although I have studied the Bible for over 60 years and have many Christian friends. I am convinced that if there is a judging God (that is another subject for another time), He will not judge us by what we believe but rather how we live our lives in accordance with those beliefs. When Christians spread the word they are living their faith and that is a wonderful thing. A Christians who is one of my best friends told me that those who don't spread the word are either spiritually lazy or they are ashamed to openly declare their faith.
Well, you are a Christian anomoly, sure to be branded as a non believer and false Christian.
Biblical instruction to preach and spread the word is the supreme example of what would be today called, superior sales psychology. Never take no for an answer, keep banging on doors, if they dont answer at the front door, run around to the back door. Persist and insist until you get a sale - tell everyone what a great product you have.....
Lets be realistic. god, sex, drugs and rock and roll sells. Anything that gives that feel good feeling is in demand. And god especially, is free. All you need is a book to believe in
Religions (and politics) require basic intoctrination principles to sustain the ideology. Shame and embarassment tactics are not exempt. With Christianity in particular, they are TOLD, WARNED, NOT to listen to non believers because they are affiliated or inspired by evil or the devil to corrupt or lead them astray. This advice or command in and of itself, automatically closes the doors to questions, intellecutal debate and reason and deep self evaluation. Because now, they have an exterior source of self empowerment to be relied upon, which is their Faith.
How is this NOT propaganda?
Religious indoctrination, the original sense of indoctrination, refers to a process of imparting doctrine in an authoritative way, as in catechism. Most religious groups among the revealed religions instruct new members in the principles of the religion; this is now not usually referred to as indoctrination by the religions themselves, in part because of the negative connotations the word has acquired.
Mystery religions require a period of indoctrination before granting access to esoteric knowledge. In the case of Christianity, the speaking in tongues upon baptism / filled with the holy spirit / born again crowd comes to mind. What usually follows this sort of indoctrination is the new found ability to prophecy and visions.
As a pejorative term indoctrination implies forcibly or coercively causing people to act and think on the basis of a certain ideology. Some secular critics maintain that all religions indoctrinate their adherents, as children, and the accusation is made in the case of religious extremism. Sects such as Scientology use personality tests and peer pressures to indoctrinate new members. The business of accusing a fellow Christian of being spiritually lazy or too ashamed to claim publically their religion is a strategy falls into this category. Isn't the idea of religion to FREE people of shame? Here its used conversely.
Some religions have commitment ceremonies for children 13 years and younger, such as Bar Mitzvah, Confirmation, and Shichi-Go-San. In Buddhism Temple boys are encouraged to follow the faith while still very young.
People who feel dejected, depressed, lack hope, who live in oppressive environments, abusive family settings and especially those who have been redeemed in some way socially, former alcholocs, drug addicts or those with sexual problems are I have found those who shout the loudest about their new found enlightenment.
RELIGION is really NOT a hard sell because it dosent cost anything, because almost everyone desires to be part of something greater than themselves and in particular if they are given reason to believe it might work. Everyone WANTS what they believe is something better than what they believe they already have or what someone else might have that they are told is better.
Sick people spend billions of dollars a year on advertised, unproven cancer cures because in spite of their dire predicaments, someone is offering them hope.
Last edited by Lillith; Mar 24th, 2012 at 9:58 AM.
Galadriel: "I amar prestar aen. Han mathon ne nen. Han mathon ne chae. A han noston ne 'wilith. "Translation: "The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air."
The major problems with ALL organized religions is that they require one to believe a certain way. However, belief is not volitional; we cannot will ourselves to believe one way or another. The idea that one can believe upon command is illogical and contrary to human nature. Rather, belief is an involuntary act; it is our perspective created by our total life's experiences filtered through the prism of our individual preferences and prejudices. We are - all of us - a product of our heredity and our environment. We are not so much masters of our beliefs as we are its slaves. Poet Shelly said it best:
"This is the pivot upon which all religions turn; they all assume that it is in our power to believe or not to believe, whereas the mind can only believe that which it thinks true. A human being can only be supposed accountable for those actions which are influenced by his will. But belief is utterly distinct from and unconnected with volition; it is the apprehension of the agreement or disagreement of the ideas that compose any proposition. Belief is a passion or involuntary operation of the mind, and, like other passions, its intensity is precisely proportionate to the degree of excitement. Volition is essential to merit or demerit. But the Christian religion attaches the highest possible degree of merit and demerit to that which is worthy of neither, and which is totally unconnected with the peculiar faculty of the mind whose presence is essential to their being" (Notes to Queen Mab).
You may believe the Bible is the complete, inspired and inerrant word of God; however I do not. It is not that I refuse to believe, but rather that I cannot believe. I have studied the Bible for over 60 years and I find it to be self-contradicting and confusing, certainly not the product of an Omniscient Being. I am always amazed how Christians themselves passionately disagree on what the Bible says. Some Christians believe that justification is by faith alone and that good works are irrelevant; however, other Christians believe that salvation is through works, and faith without works is dead. Some Christians believe in the doctrine of "once saved always saved" whereby one cannot lose salvation after accepting Christ; however, other Christians believe that those who continue in sin after knowing of Christ are to be treated as an infidel or worse. Some Christians believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and others say the Book of Revelation precludes such an event.
Further, some Christians believe that Jesus is merely the Son of God, the Father being greater than the Son; however others believe that He is a co-equal part of a divine trinity, while still others believe He is God Himself. There are many other theological disputes among Christians, yet all parties to such disputes point to verses in the Bible to prove their point. This brings up an interesting question: If Christians cannot agree among themselves what the Bible says, how can non-Christians take the Bible seriously?
The problems is that many sincere and intelligent people believe they have found the "one way, one truth and one life." But they've found it different ways and in different places. In essence, what you might call truth, I call belief, and one man's belief is just as real to him as your belief is to you. Belief is a powerful influence, but it is shaped not by logic and reason but by passion and preference. I am convinced that there are many fervent Christians on this very forum who would have been devout Jews or Muslims if they had been born at another time or place. Therefore, if there is a judging God, we will not be judged by what we believe but rather how we live our lives in accordance with that belief. I am convinced that is what a fair and just God would do. I cannot conceive how anyone could argue against this simple concept.
Sorry to butt in on this thread, just a small point, while I would debate that the same people developing the cures also first invented the disease, I think cancer is a bad choice for an example. Cancer is almost always life or death. You don't have to sell a cure for cancer , if you have it you either do whatever is possible to cure it or die.Quote by the Proffessor Sick people spend billions of dollars a year on advertised, unproven cancer cures because in spite of their dire predicaments, someone is offering them hope.
I've not had cancer but I know so many who have, and generally with the survivors , the thing they have in common is determination, keeping an attitude of surviving. Other factors may play a bigger role in life or death, such as catching it quick, and of course the kind and place of the cancer.
A lot of them get religion or refine their faiths during those times, can you blame them? For others cancer can destroy any faith in God or at least put a wedge between you, why is God so cruel? where even does this loving God stuff come from?
While most of our religioning comes from geography, the critical moments in our life , are what personalizes our beliefs.
I believe it should always be personal, which lets me out of joining any religion. However I can find comfort and even faith in a lot of truths from most any religion.
So when I look into the abyss The psalms about the Lord is my Shepard always seems to pop into my head. I can easily tell myself that this is a mere placebo for my fear . If thy rod and thy staff comfort me isn't that as real as anything?
I don't recommend spending a lot of time in THE VALLEY, but it is the truest test of any faith or belief that I've seen, and a sure way to separate the believers from the pretenders. Oh father why have thee forsaken me, sorry thats the pretender?
I think how you face death, Not only your own, but those around you is a major player in how you in your mind /soul define not only your faith/religion but you as a self. The thing is everyday we are redefining our beliefs as we experience and react to the external circumstances of life.
Real Quick before I get back to having a point, every time you make a morality decision you are redefining or confirming what you truly belief. Mostly redefining, telling your doing it because you have to Big Example , you cant feed your family , you do what a man has to do . Once you make a decision or commit an action the mind begins the task of confirming this decision as right. If the mind cant convince itself it is doing the right thing it switches to attempting to justify or accept the action. The next mental step is acceptance , no matter how it plays out in your mind you must come to some kind of peace with your action.
The more you do this the easier it becomes. The mind uses shortcuts , almost anytime it can , so it lumps actions and thoughts into bundles , so it can give faster reactions towards acceptance, or a livable self. This is what Sin is, I mean can you think of a better shortcut than to say I am a mortal born into sin, so of course I did wrong. To make it even quicker you can say god will forgive you anyway, Then your brain files it and waits for the next input.
While this bundles a lot of circumstance that file when it gets too large it effects the speed and operation of the brain. Not to mention how big that file gets also has to do with what we believe to be right and wrong , which is different in every person , mostly in what we were told is right and wrong.
I dont think or believe that all God is the mind. I also believe god is in everything, where I know I'll lose you is when I say I believe if God is in me then I'm like part God. If I had better words it would be instead of thinking of myself as a mortal born in sin , destined to hell fire without me professing my love and obedience to the one who made me this way, I'd look at the part of me that is God the magic if you will of life itself.
I'd love to get into just what is sin, "As a kid a good joke was "Why dont Baptists dance? Because they dont want anyone to think there having sex standing up"
Oh yeah a Point, while a true test of any god protector is how you do in the valley of the shadow, our true self is defined in the actions and reactions that plays out in the mind almost constantly. Take a good look at your acceptance policy, is it really enough to say that because of Adam or really EVE that you do what you do? And does it make it okay that you think you follow a book that says it's ok?
You cant change the past but make a new decision for your actions , just go through the whole process of examine your actions and the repercussions, give the brain a workout. Peace Sorry to rant and ramble B.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)