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  1. #1
    Maverick Pioneer! alpha's Avatar
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    global temps DECREASING, FACT!!!

    this is a eureka moment for me!

    finally found information that is still up from a recognised source, namely NASA, that shows 2008 as the coolest year in a decade:

    http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=36699

    of course it says 8th warmest year on record, or that's what others are saying, but that's completely normal, it's going to take a long time for the World's temps to decrease as the Sun is shut down. Once it wakes up the temps will gradually rise again.

    it's so bloody obvious it's frightening!

    as we know, Winter 2009 in the Northern Hemisphere is breaking records already. As I have said before if the Jet Stream stays South over the Atlantic this year we (Europe) are going to freeze, guess what? we bloody are! This will be the coolest winter for a decade in the UK. We even get snow off an Atlantic westerly! that is HIGHLY unusual.

    as for North America, well I don't need to tell some of our members, we're talking record breaking cold!

    if the Sun stays shut down we can guarantee this cold is going to continue. Surely EVERYONE can see this now? yes????

    if the effects of the Sun shutting down are this dramatic (just look at the 2008 temp decrease, that is sharp!) and the Planet has done with it's heat expellation from the core, what will happen if the Sun STAYS shut down in 2009?

    answers on a post card!!

  2. #2
    star gazer..... Contributor Protostar's Avatar
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    I have "worked out" that if you decrease one of the combustable ingredients in a soda pop bottle, the carbonation will lessen...
    sound familiar? I think the sun might "flatline" but not stop...
    I don't know physics as to what causes some ingredients to escape
    but they do. due to variables.
    and the sun is changing it's "speed" and no matter what is being said
    about the sun, one thing remains the constant.
    IT IS ASLEEP. And all of the Stereo 'flyby's ain't gonna change that
    FACT. But, they sure can spin a tale, like the one last week where
    a cycle 23 spot "worked its way" up the disk and the solar scientists
    said it wasn't a cycle 23 or 24 sunspot.
    OH REALLY?
    They REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT CYCLE 23 IS HERE TO STAY.
    and that is bullshit that it's "ramping up".....
    If that were true,
    The earth WOULD STILL BE IN A WARMING PHASE.
    which it isn't.

    Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

  3. #3
    Maverick Pioneer! alpha's Avatar
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    lol...
    i saw that on spaceweather today.

    "The sunspot was a member of new Solar Cycle 24; we know this because of its high latitude where new-cycle sunspots are always born. By the time the region rotated around to face Earth, it was fading away; no dark sunspot core was visible. Without STEREO, it might have escaped attention completely.

    Solar Cycle 24 is slowly gaining strength. STEREO will allow greater scrutiny of this cycle than any other in the history of solar physics. Stay tuned for more births in the months ahead."

    how the hell do they KNOW this when there's so much new data and stuff we simply have no clue about!!

    until we see 5 growing sunspots a day! we are stuck in cycle 23 for sure as you say Protostar...

  4. #4
    Iam puppy, hear me yap. Contributor lycanox's Avatar
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    Its just one year.
    And there are no indications that something extraordinary going on.
    You at least need a decade to make any long term predictions about the temperature.
    http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/139/8/a/logo_by_lycanox.png

  5. #5
    Maverick Pioneer! alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lycanox View Post
    Its just one year.
    And there are no indications that something extraordinary going on.
    You at least need a decade to make any long term predictions about the temperature.
    no indication!

    are you kidding me. the Sun has completely shut down.

    look at the difference between today and 22nd Jan 2003. Notice anything??

    http://www.spaceweather.com/index.php

    in particular compare the coronal holes image at the bottom left and the sunspots.

    http://www.spaceweather.com/archive....h=01&year=2003

    or how about 2002!

    http://www.spaceweather.com/archive....2002&view=view

    the decrease in activity coincides with record colder weather in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres in late 2007, all of 2008 and now.

    yes it's just a year but you have to see the correlation ? yes?

    so until the Sun wakes up for cycle 24 we are going to freeze.

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    Lepton Boson Muon Guy Contributor Mezurashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lycanox View Post
    Its just one year.
    And there are no indications that something extraordinary going on.
    You at least need a decade to make any long term predictions about the temperature.
    this didn't seem to stop the scientists who went to the UN with their 'man made climate change' rhetoric.

    and if their findings are over the 10 year baseline consider Those Findings are also part of the Current Baseline for Solar Activity, which the Man Made Climate Change group seems to be doing their best to ignore.

    an ENTIRE FIELD of scientific study Rejected beause the findingd Were Too Difficult to Reconcile with the Man Made Climate Change chimera.

    funny how it's EASY to believe we caused something yet when the other shoe drops in the form of Our Own Sun it once again becomes Fantasy or Non Credible.

    ostriches, all of them are ostriches ...
    For every human problem there is an easy and simple answer. And it is always wrong. - H.L. Mencken

  7. #7
    Iam puppy, hear me yap. Contributor lycanox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mezurashi View Post
    this didn't seem to stop the scientists who went to the UN with their 'man made climate change' rhetoric.

    and if their findings are over the 10 year baseline consider Those Findings are also part of the Current Baseline for Solar Activity, which the Man Made Climate Change group seems to be doing their best to ignore.

    an ENTIRE FIELD of scientific study Rejected beause the findingd Were Too Difficult to Reconcile with the Man Made Climate Change chimera.

    funny how it's EASY to believe we caused something yet when the other shoe drops in the form of Our Own Sun it once again becomes Fantasy or Non Credible.

    ostriches, all of them are ostriches ...
    Sorry but all the evidence points that global temperatures are slowly rising on the long run. Not lowering.
    There is just no evidence to suggest that this trent is on the verge of reversing itself.

    We might perhaps get a couple of cooler years in between, due to sun activity and changes in ocean temperatures. but they will be just that, just some cooler years in between.
    I do not see important cold records being broken yet or the return of the type of winters we had a couple of decades ago.
    Its not like solar cycles have that much effect on the temperatures on earth.
    http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/139/8/a/logo_by_lycanox.png

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    Lepton Boson Muon Guy Contributor Mezurashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lycanox View Post
    Sorry but all the evidence points that global temperatures are slowly rising on the long run. Not lowering.
    There is just no evidence to suggest that this trent is on the verge of reversing itself.

    We might perhaps get a couple of cooler years in between, due to sun activity and changes in ocean temperatures. but they will be just that, just some cooler years in between.
    But I do not see important cold records being broken yet or the return of the type of winters we had a couple of decades ago.
    Its not like solar cycles have that much effect on earth.
    all I've been hearing on Canadian Weather News is that we've been breaking records which have stood for 70 - 100 years.

    question; What Was Going On 100 Years Ago that we're only now starting to regain the equilibrium of back then?

    and Why Why Why is it so hard to Accept the fact that all our industrial pollution combined times ten doesn't mean Shit compared to the effects of One Coronal Burp?

    Why is it so hard to Acknoweledge that the Sun Is The Ultimate Arbiter of Solar System Climate?

    and explain to me, sir, how Human Intervention causes Global Climate Shift ON OTHER PLANETS.

    please, I'd like to know ...
    For every human problem there is an easy and simple answer. And it is always wrong. - H.L. Mencken

  9. #9
    Maverick Pioneer! alpha's Avatar
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    Lycanox!

    you're telling me this ain't significant:

    http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2...e-in-12-years/

    the last time you could skate on the canals in Holland was 1996. The last time the sea froze and the Thames froze in the UK was 1981!

    I cannot believe you say Sun cycles don't mean anything!

    madness mate, madness!

    there has been an abrupt change. It happened in late 2006. We are feeling the effects now, it's getting colder, steadily. I've laid several bets with friends who are in your camp that 2009 will be cooler again. It definitely will if the Sun stays shut down!

    What we're saying is this COULD be the start of a serious cold spell and if you look at the average temps in the last 150 years there were spikes of high temps like we've seen in the last 50 years that just as suddenly drop to low temps the like they saw in the 1600's when every river in the UK and Europe froze!

    Don't forget the winter of 1963 saw snow and ice constantly for 3 months in the UK and that was in our supposed warm period!

  10. #10
    Iam puppy, hear me yap. Contributor lycanox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mezurashi View Post
    all I've been hearing on Canadian Weather News is that we've been breaking records which have stood for 70 - 100 years.

    question; What Was Going On 100 Years Ago that we're only now starting to regain the equilibrium of back then?
    Canada is not the entire world.


    and Why Why Why is it so hard to Accept the fact that all our industrial pollution combined times ten doesn't mean Shit compared to the effects of One Coronal Burp?
    The heat that the planets receive van the sun is relatively constant.
    And does not suddenly drop or rise within 2 year time.

    And even without our emissions we are still in a natural long term warming phase of the cycle.



    Why is it so hard to Acknoweledge that the Sun Is The Ultimate Arbiter of Solar System Climate?
    Because there are a lot more factors that control the climate on planets than just solar cycles.
    Like orbit, atmosphere and even ground colour.

    You simply cant just look at the sun alone and predict that there is going to be a record breaking winter just by looking at the sun.

    In fact a couple of years ago we had a another expert that thought he could predict the weather by looking at the sun. And predicted an cyclone to hit west Europe in November. The storm never formed.

    and explain to me, sir, how Human Intervention causes Global Climate Shift ON OTHER PLANETS.

    please, I'd like to know ...
    We have absolutely not enough data about the climates on other planets to make any accurate claims about climate change on those.
    But the information we do have point that they also are rising instead of cooling.


    Lycanox!

    you're telling me this ain't significant:

    http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2...e-in-12-years/

    the last time you could skate on the canals in Holland was 1996. The last time the sea froze and the Thames froze in the UK was 1981!
    Which was mostly because the warm air constantly failed to reach the land before loosing too much warmth. And the weather is actually quite enjoyable right now. And it was also the first time since 1996 that they allowed the canals to freeze.

    I cannot believe you say Sun cycles don't mean anything!

    madness mate, madness!
    One week of snow is not enough to convince me that there is more to come. We didn't even get an elfstedentocht.

    there has been an abrupt change. It happened in late 2006. We are feeling the effects now, it's getting colder, steadily. I've laid several bets with friends who are in your camp that 2009 will be cooler again. It definitely will if the Sun stays shut down!

    What we're saying is this COULD be the start of a serious cold spell and if you look at the average temps in the last 150 years there were spikes of high temps like we've seen in the last 50 years that just as suddenly drop to low temps the like they saw in the 1600's when every river in the UK and Europe froze!

    Don't forget the winter of 1963 saw snow and ice constantly for 3 months in the UK and that was in our supposed warm period!
    Whether or not these cycles cause an extreme winter or not depend on several more factors than the sun alone.
    The effect of this cycle might only cause a moderate winter instead of the mild ones we had earlier.
    Last edited by lycanox; Jan 22nd, 2009 at 1:33 PM.
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  11. #11
    Prepared survivor Seasoned Member midnight21's Avatar
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    ugh. I have to put up with this winter longer than march then? Bloody fantastic. I swear I'm going to move to Australia one day. *mutters a few good words about wisconsin*

  12. #12
    Fighting for Life Contributor olddragon's Avatar
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    Here's a nice article on Ice.

    The day the sea froze:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rm-Sunday.html

  13. #13
    Fighting for Life Contributor olddragon's Avatar
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    The Al Gore crowd

  14. #14
    Survivalist! MaximumPain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddragon View Post
    Ummm no you guys are the ones denying there is a problem not the so called Al Gore crowd. That pic should be for you as you have your head in the ground. What you need is a "the sky is falling" pic.

    And global temperature is a trend involving the entire world over a period of years not a single event. So come back in 5 years or so and tell us its getting cooler. You sound like the local radio idiots who will say something like "Its cold today well that disproves global warming".
    Be Impeccable with Your Word
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    Survivalist! Singularity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumPain View Post
    Ummm no you guys are the ones denying there is a problem not the so called Al Gore crowd. That pic should be for you as you have your head in the ground. What you need is a "the sky is falling" pic.

    And global temperature is a trend involving the entire world over a period of years not a single event. So come back in 5 years or so and tell us its getting cooler. You sound like the local radio idiots who will say something like "Its cold today well that disproves global warming".
    Just so we're clear, I acknowledge that temperatures have been cooler the past couple years and that this is likely tied to sunspots and the sun's overall temperatures, but I still very definitely believe in the science theorizing global warming. Fucking with an atmosphere that is friendly to human life is not an intelligent way of ensuring our future.

  16. #16
    Lucky survivor Seasoned Member raphnix's Avatar
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    This is what the fact I know for now that could be obvious.
    "Temperature changes every season, regardless of how high or low they are."

  17. #17
    Don't get comfortable. Contributor Goldmoon's Avatar
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    Decreasing in some areas, because everthings all fucked.

    "He who calls on the name of the Lord, shall be saved."

  18. #18
    Who watches the watchers? Contributor Glacial Ridge's Avatar
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    quote Alpha>What we're saying is this COULD be the start of a serious cold spell and if you look at the average temps in the last 150 years there were spikes of high temps like we've seen in the last 50 years that just as suddenly drop to low temps the like they saw in the 1600's when every river in the UK and Europe froze!<
    That's right Alpha, we can see over just a couple of years what difference in the lack of the suns output has already accomplished with more mixed colder temps. This year the sun should begin producing some spots and hopefully not contribute too much toward that GW thing.

    The little round speck is Earth, just in case you didn't know.


    Now that's some GLOBAL WARMING!
    Back in Black..

  19. #19
    Maverick Pioneer! alpha's Avatar
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    cheers Glacial....

    and i said on another thread I really don't know why other areas are getting scorched. Especially, is it Eastern or Western Antarctic and of course Ozzietralia. But thanks to Glacial and others that MAY be due to the core heat expellation, you know, those things called VOLCANOS.

    However, despite your valid pointers Freaked Out, the overall picture is a COOLER YEAR in 2008: FACT! i love it when YOU lot think they have something on me; i do read the whole flippin thing you know.

    despite the hot areas; namely those poor old smiling Ozzies, we have on average a cooler year and a SHARP decline. That IS significant.

    Glacial, your graphs are spot on man; the spikes look so familiar. It really depends on when cycle 24 starts. Surely everyone can see this. It's plain as flippin day !!!!

    how long does it take for us to dip in to one of those galactic spirals: hmmmm would that be 11,000 years? are we nearly there; i wonder!!

    night night everyone from your friendly 210lb, 6ft 2", mountaineering Yorkshireman!









  20. #20
    Life is good Contributor Tired Old Man's Avatar
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    Point of view.

    I guess it all might depend on where you are and your point of view.
    For me this year is very cold here in Florida. Kind of like when I was growing up here back in the 70's. It was cold back then !
    I find it amazing that we try to use what little information we have on weather and predict what is going to happen. Way to many things to add or understand for us at this time. But I can tell you this Freaked Out.

    Baby it's cold outside.

  21. #21
    Local Pedant Contributor lazserus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mezurashi View Post
    this didn't seem to stop the scientists who went to the UN with their 'man made climate change' rhetoric.

    and if their findings are over the 10 year baseline consider Those Findings are also part of the Current Baseline for Solar Activity, which the Man Made Climate Change group seems to be doing their best to ignore.

    an ENTIRE FIELD of scientific study Rejected beause the findingd Were Too Difficult to Reconcile with the Man Made Climate Change chimera.
    This is very serious and proponents of man-made global warming prefer to just pass over the data than to scrutinize it. The problem is that there's so much available data and the Al Gore "cult" refuses to spend the time or energy to reconciliate the anomalies. Part of the reason they choose not to is they're afraid of being wrong (which they would find out if they'd scrutinize).

    Quote Originally Posted by lycanox View Post
    Sorry but all the evidence points that global temperatures are slowly rising on the long run. Not lowering.
    There is just no evidence to suggest that this trent is on the verge of reversing itself.
    There is plenty of evidence to suggest the warming trend is leading to a larger cooling phase. Scientific logic alone in the areas of climatology, palaeoclimatology, geology, and palaeontology supports the mechanism. I'm not talking Ice Age cold, but damned close. Amateurs constantly misrepresent the data because they don't understand climate mechanisms. Yes, plural: mechanisms. People like Protostar are content on believing solar behavior alone drives Earth's climate. This is so far from truth it's basically a blatant lie. We can't rule out solar behavior in climate shift, however solar physicists still haven't figured out with any real certainty the sun's role in climate. There are hypotheses floating around, but few wideley accepted theories with real experimental data exist. I can give you half a dozen working theories on prehistoric climate shift without ever plugging solar activity in. The point I'm trying to make is you guys keep thinking linearly. The world doesn't function on a straight line, or in 2 dimensions.

    Quote Originally Posted by lycanox View Post
    The heat that the planets receive van the sun is relatively constant. And does not suddenly drop or rise within 2 year time.
    Then how do you explain record breaking low temperatures just two years after record breaking high temperatures? And you have to understand how the sun transfers energy to the planets before you can make such a claim with any authority. You can't think of the sun like burning embers and the planets as your fingers moving to and fro the heat.

    Quote Originally Posted by lycanox View Post
    Because there are a lot more factors that control the climate on planets than just solar cycles.
    Like orbit, atmosphere and even ground colour.
    I remove you from that list I mentioned above about thinking linearly about climate. You're absolutely right when saying this. And there's a laundry list of other factors to add to this such as current stability, ocean salinity, number of certain types of plant species, the rate at which we cut down trees, the frequency of wild fires, the beetle population...Savvy?

    Quote Originally Posted by lycanox View Post
    You simply cant just look at the sun alone and predict that there is going to be a record breaking winter just by looking at the sun.
    Just the same you can't look at it and say we're on an absolute warming trend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glacial Ridge View Post
    Is this a long term trend, the present cooling period? Solar physicists around the world would like to know.
    Exactly! There's no doubt that solar activity plays a role in climate, we're just not sure how. The role it plays could very well be negligible.

  22. #22
    Lepton Boson Muon Guy Contributor Mezurashi's Avatar
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    I just remembered something again, this flash came up some weeks or up to 2 months ago, and it has to do with Global Atmospheric Humidity Averages.

    does anyone remember when there were many questions being asked about the effects of the warming trend on the actual level of humidity in our atmosphere? this would have been about 2 - 4 years ago, didn't linger long and was soon overtaken by other issues (like methane emissions from permafrost melt).

    I ask this because the concern at the time was How Much Mass was added to the System (atmospheric currents, planetary rotation, albedo changes and everything else that contributes in a big way to the way air moves around the globe) and if this would affect the 'profiles' for heat exchange and absorption, storm severity and even stuff like the generalized ionization of the atmosphere - not about lightning but more subtle stuff that isn't flashy.

    getting away from the various factors and pointing fingers and such - it comes down to ...

    Does ANYONE Really think we can Change what's happening even with our best efforts?

    more and more I've been hearing the idea that we're already too far gone to do anything about it from climatologists and environmental scientists, not in a big way but inserted into lectures and documentaries about the whole meghilla. and they're Not implying that we might as well keep going on as before, far from it, but maybe we should start thinking about What We're Going To Do To Adapt.

    Cleaning up our act is terribly important, you get no argument from me on that point. I will forego the whole 'why' issue because we're in a burning house - we don't have the leisure to argue about How the fire started anymore and Knowing the Answer would not make an iota of difference given what sems to be happening around the globe.

    methane outgassing is now bad enough that mainstream media has noticed it. Western Antarctica is showing signs of warming. the sun's acting weird. CO2 outgassing from volcano's worldwide is also on the rise.

    and Humidity is one of the Biggest Greenhouse Factors there is ...

    so I'm concerned about Humidity now ... once again I ask, does anyone remember this issue? and has there been some happy news?
    For every human problem there is an easy and simple answer. And it is always wrong. - H.L. Mencken

  23. #23
    Life Scholar Contributor Nasik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazserus View Post
    There is plenty of evidence to suggest the warming trend is leading to a larger cooling phase. Scientific logic alone in the areas of climatology, palaeoclimatology, geology, and palaeontology supports the mechanism.
    Please provide some links. I would be most interested to read this surfiet of evidence you claim exists. I'm thinking about shifts in our current climate - and while on a much larger scale I don't doubt what you're saying, I do think the climate models and annedoctal evidence should give one pause about what's going on right now.


    Exactly! There's no doubt that solar activity plays a role in climate, we're just not sure how. The role it plays could very well be negligible
    I agree with this statement.
    "Wanton killing of innocent civilians is terrorism, not a war against terrorism" Noam Chomsky

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    Iam puppy, hear me yap. Contributor lycanox's Avatar
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    Things are far from that simple..

    Take for instance Mercury and Venus.

    Venus is nearly twice as far of the sun as Mercury is. And only receives 25% of the amount of solar energy Mercury receives.
    Despise this, the temperatures of Venus can variate between 450°C and 480°C. And is still hotter than Mercury, which variates between 420°C and -220°C.

    This difference is completely the result of the greenhouse effect on Venus.
    Last edited by lycanox; Jan 27th, 2009 at 10:59 AM.
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    Lepton Boson Muon Guy Contributor Mezurashi's Avatar
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    well, for those who like to hear from the world's climatologists ...

    A team of environmental researchers in the US has warned many effects of climate change are irreversible.

    The scientists concluded global temperatures could remain high for 1,000 years, even if carbon emissions can somehow be halted.

    Their report was sponsored by the US Department of Energy and comes as President Obama announces a review of vehicle emission standards.

    It appears in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
    link to article - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7852628.stm

    so, to all those who think what we're doing will Stop Climate Change ... or even have an effect ...
    For every human problem there is an easy and simple answer. And it is always wrong. - H.L. Mencken

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